Art Farmer Blindfold Test [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:17:02 Leonard Feather: The blindfold test.

00:00:17:05 - 00:00:27:26 Leonard Feather: With Leonard Feather, you.

00:00:27:28 - 00:00:34:13 Leonard Feather: Is today’s guest.

00:00:34:15 - 00:00:41:06 Leonard Feather: Art farmer.

00:00:41:09 - 00:00:48:21 Leonard Feather: President.

00:00:48:23 - 00:01:30:28 Leonard Feather: Once again, greetings and modulations. We invite you to join with our very expert experts in a survey of the scene. And today, our surveyor is a gentleman well known. I’m sure to all of you to find out a little about him. We dug into the new edition of the Encyclopedia of Jazz, turned to page 213, and found that he was born in Council Bluffs, Iowa, raised in Phenix, Arizona, and he worked with quite a number of name bands Horace Henderson, Floyd Ray, chemist with Johnny Otis, and freelanced around New York in 47 and eight, then was out on the West Coast with Benny Carter, spent a year with Lionel Hampton, touring Europe with him in

00:01:30:28 - 00:01:56:00 Leonard Feather: 53, and we heard of him around New York City in a group with Gigi Grace, later with Horace Silver and doing some of the finest trumpet work ever heard with the Gerry Mulligan Combo in 1958, appearing with Gerry in a couple of movies, I Want to Live and The Subterranean. And in late 59, this gentleman and the tenor saxophonist Benny Golson formed their own group known as the Jazz Tet.

00:01:56:03 - 00:02:18:00 Leonard Feather: I described our guest in the Encyclopedia, a lyrical and highly sensitive performer, one of the most adaptable of contemporary trumpeters, who has managed to fit successfully the styles of such diverse groups as George Russell’s Horace Silvers and Gerry Mulligan’s. And I’m very happy to say welcome to the Blindfold Test to our former.

00:02:18:02 - 00:02:22:08 Art Farmer: Well, thank you very much, Leonard. It’s very glad that, that.

00:02:22:11 - 00:02:24:14 Leonard Feather: You sound bashful. It’s very glad of your.

00:02:24:16 - 00:02:27:17 Art Farmer: I am very glad to see you out here in California.

00:02:27:20 - 00:02:44:20 Leonard Feather: Well, it’s a great pleasure, as I said, Art, to have you here and, you know that we are presenting a sort of variety of records here, quite a number of them featuring trumpet players, but, quite a little different from the blindfold test you did a year or so ago in Downbeat, which proved to be one of our most interesting and so badly.

00:02:44:22 - 00:03:18:12 Leonard Feather: So, if you’re ready, we’ll just, get set up and have the first record going in a moment. Oh.

00:03:29:15 - 00:04:29:22 Leonard Feather: Odd from can hear me. But this is the Petit Charles New Directions Quartet featuring Terry on vibes at Shaughnessy on drums. Mal Waldron, pianist and composer and Art’s twin brother Addison Farmer on bass, with guest stars Booker Little on trumpet and Booker Ervin on tenor saxophone on playing, a composition by Mal Waldron called cycles and it’s from an album jazz in the garden at the Museum of Modern Art on Warwick Records.

00:04:29:24 - 00:06:13:01 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: The.

00:06:13:04 - 00:06:19:17 Unknown Speaker: Name.

00:06:19:19 - 00:06:24:23 Unknown Speaker: Is.

00:06:24:25 - 00:06:32:24 Unknown Speaker: Made up.

00:06:32:26 - 00:07:17:05 Unknown Speaker: By listening. To. The.

00:07:17:07 - 00:07:34:11 Unknown Speaker: Group.

00:07:46:04 - 00:08:19:25 Unknown Speaker: I.

00:08:19:27 - 00:08:23:06 Leonard Feather: Well, as you gathered, Art, that was, an in-person performance.

00:08:23:09 - 00:08:24:26 Art Farmer: Yes.

00:08:25:10 - 00:08:28:16 Unknown Speaker: it’s been.

00:08:28:18 - 00:08:31:15 Leonard Feather: Do you have any idea who might have been there?

00:08:31:17 - 00:08:32:26 Art Farmer: Well, I do have an idea.

00:08:32:26 - 00:08:34:10 Leonard Feather: I’m sure you do that.

00:08:34:10 - 00:08:47:02 Art Farmer: It was Terry, Charles and, Mel. Jerry. Right. And, knowing that that’s not working in a group with my brother Addison, I guess that was Addison. In fact, it did sound like him. And that was him.

00:08:47:09 - 00:08:50:16 Leonard Feather: That was indeed your twin brother. And I don’t have a flying bass.

00:08:50:23 - 00:09:05:00 Art Farmer: I don’t have an idea who the tenor player was, but the trumpet player sound quite a bit like Donna Barrett. Tennis player. Sound like he’s been listening to Coltrane. Trumpet player was even Donald. As someone who’s.

00:09:05:00 - 00:09:12:29 Leonard Feather: Been listening quite a bit too, it’s true, the latter is true. A lot of the latter, namely someone who’s been listening to Donald.

00:09:13:02 - 00:09:20:05 Art Farmer: So yeah, because I thought that Donald, is playing much better than that nowadays.

00:09:20:07 - 00:09:28:00 Leonard Feather: Donald has developed a really fine technique and control which possibly this artist doesn’t yet have. Although, as you say, it’s in the same style.

00:09:29:16 - 00:09:47:21 Art Farmer: and Father Tone is concerned. I’ve never heard the tune before, but, now it’s one of my favorite writers, and I like him because he, he’s he’s not afraid to, to, not sound like everybody else around.

00:09:47:24 - 00:09:50:12 Leonard Feather: Yeah. And,

00:09:50:15 - 00:09:54:27 Art Farmer: Play some things by him that I really liked. This was a pleasant piece, by the way.

00:09:54:29 - 00:09:56:21 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I found it very agreeable.

00:09:56:23 - 00:10:07:21 Art Farmer: And it was, well, play it from, you know, from Van Horn Ensemble. I think that, Teddy’s playing has improved, too. I understand what he’s doing more now than.

00:10:07:21 - 00:10:27:16 Leonard Feather: I used to. Yeah, I used something of Teddy’s in the last painful test. As a matter of fact, I thought it’d be interesting to compare, because I believe this is a more recent and more representative example of his work than the one I played you before. So let’s see how it writes on the On the Bell system.

00:10:27:18 - 00:10:42:28 Leonard Feather: For bells are very good writing for Teddy Charles with, Mal Waldron, as you said, piano and composer Ed Shaughnessy on drums and arts twin brother Addison Farmer on bass, and the two Booker’s Booker Ervin and Booker Little playing tennis saxophone and trumpet.

00:10:43:01 - 00:10:43:23 Art Farmer: That’s right.

00:10:44:16 - 00:11:04:25 Leonard Feather: I thought I might surprise you there because they’re not regular members of this group. I guess it’s more or less only semi organized grew up anyway. Anyhow that was an interesting start. Now we’re going along to a big band scene for a record number two.

00:11:04:28 - 00:11:08:18 Unknown Speaker: The first.

00:11:08:20 - 00:11:24:17 Unknown Speaker: One on the one. And of.

00:11:24:19 - 00:11:38:10 Unknown Speaker: 111111110.

00:11:38:13 - 00:11:49:06 Unknown Speaker: Things.

00:11:49:09 - 00:11:59:24 Unknown Speaker: For the. But I.

00:11:59:26 - 00:12:05:18 Unknown Speaker: Oh. Oh.

00:12:05:20 - 00:12:09:29 Unknown Speaker: That I don’t.

00:12:10:01 - 00:12:36:05 Leonard Feather: This is an excerpt from Benny Curtis Kansas City suite for the Count Basie Orchestra. And it’s one of Benny’s originals. Jackson County Jubilee.

00:12:36:08 - 00:12:42:08 Unknown Speaker: From.

00:12:42:10 - 00:13:07:04 Unknown Speaker: The.

00:13:07:06 - 00:13:11:22 Unknown Speaker: First.

00:13:11:24 - 00:13:33:00 Unknown Speaker: Ever.

00:13:33:02 - 00:13:36:20 Art Farmer: Sounds like something Benny Carter would write to me.

00:13:36:22 - 00:13:43:26 Leonard Feather: Well, I guess it’s, difficult to deceive you about your alma mater. You was Benny’s band quite a while ago, aren’t you?

00:13:43:27 - 00:13:50:13 Art Farmer: Yes. I work with him out here for? For a while, off and on, you know. You know how the big band thing is. Yes.

00:13:50:15 - 00:13:54:29 Leonard Feather: But that was during the last period of Benny’s big band, I guess, wasn’t it? What?

00:13:55:14 - 00:14:02:21 Art Farmer: actually, he was just, get together a band sometime, you know, when the occasion called for a big band, I say.

00:14:02:23 - 00:14:03:26 Leonard Feather: And,

00:14:03:28 - 00:14:09:25 Art Farmer: I remember one time we spent quite a bit of time just just, rehearsing music of my gratitude.

00:14:09:27 - 00:14:10:17 Leonard Feather: Is that so?

00:14:10:17 - 00:14:18:27 Art Farmer: Very interesting. But, but we went working with the big band, and, so that sounded like it was right. And.

00:14:18:29 - 00:14:21:19 Leonard Feather: Well, I can’t deny that.

00:14:21:21 - 00:14:25:04 Art Farmer: So I guess maybe that’s current basis fame.

00:14:25:06 - 00:14:27:07 Leonard Feather: It is indeed.

00:14:27:09 - 00:14:33:23 Art Farmer: I don’t know who the tenor for it was. Didn’t sound like even one of those Franks to me. It must be one of them.

00:14:33:25 - 00:14:46:26 Leonard Feather: Well, it certainly is. And Frank Wess, I would assume it to be Frank foster. There are no there are no solo credits given with this album, so we have to be a little doubtful about it. I would say it’s probably Frank foster. That could be, Billy Mitchell.

00:14:46:28 - 00:14:50:04 Art Farmer: Oh, yeah. That’s right. No, didn’t sound like either one of them.

00:14:50:06 - 00:14:54:02 Leonard Feather: So I’ll never know. Oh, maybe we will someday. I’m sorry.

00:14:54:04 - 00:15:01:02 Art Farmer: And the trumpet player wasn’t. I didn’t sound like Joe Newman. that Jones must be one of the new guys in the band.

00:15:01:08 - 00:15:20:10 Leonard Feather: Oh, I feel it was that Jones. Oh, yeah, I’m pretty sure it was that. However, there again, there was no identification. That’s one of those annoying liner notes where they don’t tell you anything. But, did you think the band was, in its best form there? Well,

00:15:20:13 - 00:15:31:16 Art Farmer: Sounded good, but it didn’t sound like they’d been playing that music very much. you know, most of basic things have settled right into it, so. Well, seemingly and with sounds to me.

00:15:31:18 - 00:15:54:21 Leonard Feather: This, I think, is a tendency among some big bands. They have certain arrangements commission that instead of working them out on the road for several weeks or a month or two, they rush right into the studio and record them immediately. And I think it’s true that this is probably what happened here, because I’m almost sure that they waited for the Kansas City sweet to arrive in the mail, and then took it up to the studios right away.

00:15:54:23 - 00:16:02:17 Art Farmer: It sounded good for a studio band, you know? Yeah, I mean, dates with bands. sound that good? One rather pleased, but,

00:16:02:19 - 00:16:03:01 Leonard Feather: Yeah, that’s.

00:16:03:01 - 00:16:04:19 Art Farmer: True. And organized and.

00:16:04:21 - 00:16:08:16 Leonard Feather: Depends whether you judge it as Basie or as studio bands in general.

00:16:08:19 - 00:16:16:20 Art Farmer: Or if you judge basically, it didn’t sound like the rhythm section, really, I don’t know. Yeah, I guess it’s just the pavement playing something different for a change.

00:16:16:22 - 00:16:21:20 Leonard Feather: Yeah. That’s that’s right. I’m giving.

00:16:21:23 - 00:16:39:28 Leonard Feather: Three bells for a Jackson County Jubilee out of Benny Carter’s Kansas City suite for the Count Basie Orchestra on roulette. There are some, delightful tracks in the album. Oh, that, I think, is a very pleasant one, too. But I do think if I’d played the whole thing for several weeks, it probably would have turned out even better.

00:16:40:00 - 00:16:46:14 Art Farmer: Yes, I heard another track on the radio one day. It was, some kind of street is,

00:16:46:16 - 00:16:49:12 Leonard Feather: Some Vine Street bookies, and I don’t know.

00:16:49:15 - 00:16:51:12 Art Farmer: I don’t remember now, but I like that.

00:16:51:14 - 00:17:02:05 Leonard Feather: Yeah, that’s a very good things in it. Okay, let’s go with record number three for Brooklyn.

00:17:02:07 - 00:17:10:18 Unknown Speaker: Boo boo boo boo boo boo boo. Oh. Oh boo.

00:17:10:20 - 00:17:13:14 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Boo.

00:17:13:16 - 00:17:19:03 Unknown Speaker: Boo boo boo boo boo boo boo boo.

00:17:19:05 - 00:17:27:19 Unknown Speaker: Thank you. Boo. Mama.

00:17:27:22 - 00:17:43:14 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Boo.

00:17:43:16 - 00:18:29:22 Unknown Speaker: Oh.

00:18:29:24 - 00:19:00:27 Unknown Speaker: Then. Boom. Boom.

00:19:00:29 - 00:20:53:23 Leonard Feather: This is a group I think Art won’t recognize. Another lesson on trumpet players Johnny Letterman, Kenny Burrell on guitar. Dick Wilson is a pianist, a composer of this piece called Tina. A recent album, The many angles of John Lennon and Bethlehem.

00:20:53:26 - 00:21:06:12 Unknown Speaker: You.

00:21:06:14 - 00:21:10:18 Unknown Speaker: Really.

00:21:10:21 - 00:21:16:01 Unknown Speaker: Do.

00:21:16:03 - 00:21:19:20 Art Farmer: Trumpet player sound like a Dixieland trumpet player, am I.

00:21:19:20 - 00:21:25:09 Leonard Feather: Right? Well, it depends how you define Dixieland. I wouldn’t classify him that way.

00:21:25:11 - 00:21:28:07 Art Farmer: Oh, no. I sort of have that metropole sound to me.

00:21:28:08 - 00:21:46:29 Leonard Feather: Well, there you may be, right. Yeah. The Metropole sound somehow doesn’t necessarily connote the same thing as Dixieland. I don’t know it to to me, Dixieland means a maybe while Bill Davis and all people in that tradition, from that point of view, you’re wrong. But from the Metropole standpoint, you’re 100% right.

00:21:46:29 - 00:21:50:17 Art Farmer: And I don’t know who it was.

00:21:50:19 - 00:21:54:14 Leonard Feather: I didn’t think it would.

00:21:54:16 - 00:21:57:13 Leonard Feather: But it’s not. A Dixieland tune by any means is reasonably modern.

00:21:57:14 - 00:22:00:05 Art Farmer: Not at all. It’s not at all Dixieland tune.

00:22:00:07 - 00:22:04:24 Unknown Speaker: And, play it a.

00:22:04:24 - 00:22:07:03 Art Farmer: Little bit too hot for me.

00:22:07:06 - 00:22:09:11 Leonard Feather: Too, Well, I don’t know.

00:22:09:28 - 00:22:20:02 Art Farmer: I don’t know how to say that better, but, a little bit tuned to dominating. we play them and listen to me.

00:22:20:04 - 00:22:23:00 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I see what you maybe for.

00:22:23:00 - 00:22:31:28 Art Farmer: And they sound like it might have been my brother. not this time.

00:22:32:00 - 00:22:35:28 Unknown Speaker: Honey, I think so. Okay, here’s the thing.

00:22:36:01 - 00:22:36:26 Art Farmer: I don’t know.

00:22:38:14 - 00:22:39:08 Leonard Feather: the guitar player.

00:22:39:08 - 00:22:54:08 Art Farmer: You might not know that sound. Yeah, the guitar player sound like Ray Crawford. I don’t, because I couldn’t be sure. But, you know, I heard him down with Gil Evans is playing. Things started like that, you know for sure. And then.

00:22:54:12 - 00:22:55:18 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah.

00:22:55:20 - 00:23:01:06 Leonard Feather: That’s interesting. Sort of a neutral ground that they hit here, isn’t it? Between. Between traditional and modern.

00:23:01:09 - 00:23:03:14 Art Farmer: Oh, that’s. So that’s the idea.

00:23:03:16 - 00:23:13:18 Leonard Feather: I don’t know whether that’s the idea. It just hits me that way. Sounds like a group of musicians, perhaps with older ideas playing some of the younger. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

00:23:13:20 - 00:23:16:05 Art Farmer: Sounds like that. That could be it.

00:23:16:07 - 00:23:27:26 Leonard Feather: Well, we’ll examine the, the, label or the back of the record in just a moment. If you have any further thoughts, this is the time to express them, or else you can just go ahead with the writing.

00:23:27:28 - 00:23:29:09 Art Farmer: Oh.

00:23:29:11 - 00:23:36:07 Leonard Feather: Yeah. my wife is handing me the record you can be writing it for. You see, it?

00:23:36:10 - 00:23:44:11 Leonard Feather: Two bells for Johnny Letterman. You know, John Lennon as he’s played with Basie. As a matter of fact, he’s been with quite a few big bands.

00:23:44:11 - 00:23:45:23 Art Farmer: Johnny. I worked with him with,

00:23:45:26 - 00:23:46:11 Leonard Feather: Is that right?

00:23:46:12 - 00:23:54:22 Art Farmer: See whose band we work? The record. They’re part of that. At one time, in fact, we went the a week at the, a week of Apollo with Lockjaw Davis, you know.

00:23:54:22 - 00:23:55:10 Leonard Feather: No kidding.

00:23:55:10 - 00:23:56:18 Art Farmer: You know, when a small group goes.

00:23:56:21 - 00:24:14:10 Leonard Feather: Yeah, they just augment with anybody. the funny thing is that you should mention the Metropole, because Johnny has his own trio every afternoon at the Metropole. That’s just that. A gig. And he has with him Kenny Burrell on guitar here, have Panama Francis on drums. I guess it’s Panama de France, as they call them. John Morrison on bass.

00:24:14:15 - 00:24:16:09 Leonard Feather: I imagine that means Peck. Morrison.

00:24:16:09 - 00:24:17:01 Art Farmer: Yeah, I guess.

00:24:17:06 - 00:24:44:09 Leonard Feather: They’re very formal on these. And and Dick well, stood on piano. He wrote the tune. It’s called Tina. and the album is the many angles of John Lambert, meaning that he sings, composes and, plays trumpet. I guess at one point or another in the album. Well, I thought that be a little bit of a change of pace, but, I think you’ll find this next one is more and more in your general groove, and I’m looking forward to hearing what you feel about it, writing wise and in general.

00:24:44:11 - 00:24:51:19 Unknown Speaker: Here we go.

00:24:51:21 - 00:25:22:06 Unknown Speaker: I’m.

00:25:22:09 - 00:25:25:15 Unknown Speaker: I think.

00:25:25:17 - 00:25:44:26 Leonard Feather: This is the loneliest, most composition. Mr. V, played by a group on the direction of, Taylor, drummer with, among others, Dave Burns on trumpet, Stan Turrentine, tenor. Wynton Kelly, piano and potato Valdez on conga. Trophy.

00:25:44:29 - 00:25:49:29 Unknown Speaker: We’re to do.

00:25:50:01 - 00:25:55:09 Unknown Speaker: It.

00:25:55:11 - 00:26:17:25 Unknown Speaker: Another other. No. No, no. No! Oh, no.

00:26:17:27 - 00:26:24:05 Unknown Speaker: Oh, Jerry.

00:26:24:08 - 00:26:35:09 Unknown Speaker: Nothing.

00:26:35:12 - 00:27:14:11 Unknown Speaker: To you? That’s fine.

00:27:14:13 - 00:30:32:15 Unknown Speaker: Mr..

00:30:32:18 - 00:30:59:25 Unknown Speaker: Bruce.

00:30:59:28 - 00:31:33:16 Unknown Speaker: I have my.

00:31:33:19 - 00:31:37:18 Leonard Feather: I remember the title of that. I’m sure you know the tuna.

00:31:37:21 - 00:31:42:28 Art Farmer: I know the tumor, not the title. is it not? But, you know, is, a trophy.

00:31:43:00 - 00:31:43:26 Leonard Feather: You got it?

00:31:43:29 - 00:31:51:21 Art Farmer: Yeah. Marks, too. Nice tune, I like it. I had a pretty good feel on that, but the drums are too loud for me.

00:31:51:23 - 00:32:00:05 Leonard Feather: Drums are too loud. Yeah, well, of course there were two percussion men, and I don’t know whether you dug the addition of the. The conga.

00:32:00:07 - 00:32:07:17 Art Farmer: Yes, I dug I dug the addition of the conga. But, was it two sets of drums?

00:32:07:19 - 00:32:10:25 Leonard Feather: No, not two sets of regular drums, to my knowledge.

00:32:10:27 - 00:32:29:22 Art Farmer: Then it was a little bit too loud. The overall. Overall, they had a good feeling, had a pretty good feeling of the tune, and I’d like to, I don’t know who was playing on anything. And the lieutenant put a sound there faintly, like it might be much history.

00:32:29:25 - 00:32:36:18 Leonard Feather: Oh, you’re a 3000 miles away. How far is California from Pittsburgh? I don’t know.

00:32:36:20 - 00:32:38:27 Art Farmer: Well, that doesn’t ring any bells either.

00:32:39:05 - 00:32:45:24 Leonard Feather: I’m trying to drop hints, and it isn’t helping. No, I never mind guessing. You know, the rhythm section. You might be able know the pianist or the bass player.

00:32:45:26 - 00:32:55:07 Art Farmer: Oh, the bass solo. I like to I like the bass. So. But I don’t know. I don’t know who it was. So I give that three bells.

00:32:55:07 - 00:33:01:10 Leonard Feather: You didn’t say anything about the trumpet, by the way. Oh, the trombone.

00:33:01:12 - 00:33:19:21 Art Farmer: I don’t know who he was. He didn’t sound like he was really, trying to imitate anyone, so I couldn’t say. He sounds like Miles. Sound like somebody. Which is a good thing to say when you don’t know anything else. You. Would. I can’t even say that. But he sounded fairly well.

00:33:19:24 - 00:33:38:15 Leonard Feather: All right. that was Dave Burns. You probably haven’t heard him in quite a while. Oh, yeah, and it’s arts group Art Taylor. And so that would explain the predominant of the drums and see, he was entitled a set himself up a little closer as later. And he had with him potato Valdez on Congo, Stanley Turrentine on tenor.

00:33:38:15 - 00:34:00:11 Leonard Feather: He is from Pittsburgh, I believe, and Wynton Kelly and Paul Chambers. So it was a pretty strong group on a Blue Note album of, 80s that came out quite recently. Now, I think before we go along to the next record, will pause just briefly for station identification.

00:34:00:14 - 00:34:55:12 Leonard Feather: This is Leonard Feather with a blindfold test. Our guest today is Art farmer, co-leader with Benny Golson of the brilliant jazz Tet, currently featured on Argo Records and visiting Los Angeles. And now here we go with the next record for Art’s consideration.

00:34:55:14 - 00:35:36:10 Leonard Feather: Now this is from an album Quincy Jones made in California. The album was called Go West, Young Man, and the tune is No Bones at All, featuring trumpet solos by Pick and only Connick and only Jack Sheldon and Harry Sweet’s Edison. And that honor.

00:35:36:12 - 00:35:55:25 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: For.

00:35:55:27 - 00:36:02:25 Unknown Speaker: A.

00:36:02:28 - 00:36:33:09 Unknown Speaker: Second.

00:36:33:11 - 00:38:16:07 Unknown Speaker: He needed.

00:38:16:09 - 00:38:17:26 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: To.

00:38:17:28 - 00:38:22:13 Art Farmer: Wow. I like the bass solo. And I like the drum solo.

00:38:23:03 - 00:38:36:01 Art Farmer: And I like the open. Open Travis solo better than the muted solo. I again, I have to say, I don’t know who it is. You don’t have any idea? You know who these fans could be.

00:38:36:04 - 00:38:45:29 Leonard Feather: But I gather from your lack of comment that you were not particularly impressed with the with the writing. Oh, whatever. That was in the way of composition, arrangement?

00:38:46:01 - 00:39:04:19 Art Farmer: No. the the changes on the tune sounded nice, but I didn’t particularly care for the fussy, because, that was probably, might have been made necessary by the horns they had on there, but I didn’t care for that type of sound.

00:39:04:22 - 00:39:08:29 Leonard Feather: It’s a rather unusual setup. Just the trumpets and rhythm section.

00:39:09:01 - 00:39:12:17 Art Farmer: Oh, yeah. It is. what was that? Two trumpets. Two. What?

00:39:12:19 - 00:39:21:03 Leonard Feather: Well, that’s for you to find. no, it was more than two trumpets. Actually, it was four trumpets. I must say that the recording didn’t do justice to that either.

00:39:21:10 - 00:39:21:27 Art Farmer: did.

00:39:22:00 - 00:39:39:21 Leonard Feather: The recording achieve the miraculous effect of making four trumpets sound like two? Which I can’t blame you for making a mistake. However, I’ll tell you a little more in just a moment. I gather that we have what sounds to me like maybe A2A2 and a half Bell rating at best, am I right? Yeah.

00:39:39:24 - 00:39:41:08 Art Farmer: So we just let it go.

00:39:41:09 - 00:39:57:28 Leonard Feather: Let it go at that. 2 or 2. The two bells, Well, that was from a Quincy Jones that called Go West, young man. And he went west and picked up Candy cane, Dolly and Pete Condola and Jack Sheldon and Sweets Edison. which was the one that you liked? I couldn’t be sure. It might be, I think Connie was the one that played the first.

00:39:57:28 - 00:40:04:17 Leonard Feather: I told the audience the other way around, but it’s Connie first, and then Pete and I couldn’t be sure which was the part that you preferred.

00:40:04:17 - 00:40:06:16 Art Farmer: But where are those guys complaining?

00:40:06:23 - 00:40:24:09 Leonard Feather: Yeah, they’re all good musicians, but, maybe they didn’t get enough jazz to stretch out here or something. And the bass player whom you liked was Leroy Vinegar. Oh, the drummer whom you liked was Mel Lewis, and they worked together a great deal out here. As you probably know. So, and the original was by Johnny Mandel.

00:40:24:09 - 00:40:40:12 Leonard Feather: And I certainly think he’s done some magnificent work in the field of writing for movies. You know him very well. In fact, that’s one of the reasons I played it, because you worked with him on I Want to Live in You. Yes. However, we still know that, even a Johnny Mandel can come up with a two star every once in a while.

00:40:40:19 - 00:40:42:10 Art Farmer: But that was Johnny’s writing. Of course.

00:40:42:10 - 00:40:57:04 Leonard Feather: You know, Quincy didn’t arrange it. Johnny composed and arranged it. Quincy just conducted this date, and, the love, the writing for it that a trumpet session and a and a saxophone session was one of those special things that they did out here on ABC Paramount a couple of years ago. You remember?

00:40:57:07 - 00:40:59:09 Art Farmer: Sound like a rush job, really.

00:40:59:12 - 00:41:04:07 Leonard Feather: It quite possibly was. There are so many of those. Too many records are made that way nowadays.

00:41:04:07 - 00:41:05:26 Art Farmer: That’s right.

00:41:05:29 - 00:41:17:29 Leonard Feather: Okay. All right. Let’s see if we can do a little better on the, reaction to this one.

00:41:18:01 - 00:41:56:16 Unknown Speaker: Oh.

00:41:56:18 - 00:42:11:24 Unknown Speaker: Doo doo doo doo doo. Do.

00:42:11:26 - 00:43:01:12 Unknown Speaker: You.

00:43:02:00 - 00:46:09:07 Leonard Feather: this is a new group led by the Montgomery brothers on their fantasy album June and January.

00:46:09:10 - 00:46:29:07 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: They.

00:46:29:09 - 00:47:50:11 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Do.

00:47:51:26 - 00:48:00:20 Art Farmer: That, that octave on the, on the, guitar playing. You know, when they were playing, the force made me think of Wes Montgomery.

00:48:00:20 - 00:48:06:20 Unknown Speaker: In a bit, and, and.

00:48:06:20 - 00:48:19:00 Art Farmer: We played very well on, on the records. I sounded a little tense to me on the piano. So, and the recording. Very bad. At least it sounded didn’t have too much presence.

00:48:19:02 - 00:48:36:14 Leonard Feather: Yeah. I, I thought it seemed to like that a little, but, I thought the guitar. Well, let’s not get into my opinions once again. Every every week I get into this house, the way I start expressing my own views. You know, the guitar is fine. What can I say? I know you’re not going to disagree with that.

00:48:36:18 - 00:49:10:06 Art Farmer: And yeah, the piano, you know, is moving all over the place. playing and everything and attuned to. Just something a little bit. Harry. Harriet. But he was doing what he wanted. He was making what he trying to make. So that’s. You know when you record a when you play when you sort of set of problems for yourself and true and what happens is sometimes you make it, sometimes you don’t.

00:49:10:09 - 00:49:16:02 Art Farmer: But you set up the problems and, and I think that they.

00:49:16:04 - 00:49:22:16 Art Farmer: I think that they might be pleased with it, but I’m kind of doubtful. I think they would like it.

00:49:22:16 - 00:49:25:15 Leonard Feather: And you remember the tune? It’s an old.

00:49:25:15 - 00:49:33:00 Art Farmer: Standard, general. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I get it.

00:49:33:02 - 00:49:53:09 Leonard Feather: Oh, you. Were you trying to mute that second one and give it two and a half? No. You can damp it, you know, make two and a half bells out. Well, actually, I thought you might guess what the group was. It’s, recently organized group known as the Montgomery Brothers with West. Of course, on guitar, as you guessed, and monk on bass and buddy, who doubles on piano and vibes.

00:49:53:09 - 00:49:59:24 Art Farmer: Well, I’d tell you, I never would have thought that was worse if I hadn’t hadn’t heard those four bar exchanges with the jam. Yeah.

00:49:59:27 - 00:50:03:14 Leonard Feather: That’s funny, you did work with at least 1 or 2 of the brothers, didn’t you?

00:50:03:14 - 00:50:06:06 Art Farmer: I worked with monk for about a year.

00:50:06:08 - 00:50:11:28 Leonard Feather: It’s been a long nose band. It’s difficult to get a real idea of a musician’s capabilities.

00:50:12:15 - 00:50:20:02 Art Farmer: well, no. No, you know, from working with a gun and knowing him and, you know, like, you work with the band and go around and play, you know, statues.

00:50:20:06 - 00:50:22:16 Leonard Feather: The things I should have said from the audience’s point.

00:50:22:16 - 00:50:25:29 Art Farmer: Oh, yeah. From. Yeah, that’s right, that’s right. From the audience.

00:50:26:01 - 00:50:33:02 Leonard Feather: Because the audience sometimes doesn’t get a chance to hear what the man can do. They maybe play eight bars in a set if they’re lucky.

00:50:33:05 - 00:50:37:09 Art Farmer: That’s right. too often that’s the case.

00:50:37:12 - 00:50:58:25 Leonard Feather: Well, be that as it may, you did, write it. So we’re ready, I think, for the next record coming up on the art from a blindfold test. Here we go.

00:50:58:27 - 00:51:10:17 Unknown Speaker: You have to.

00:51:10:19 - 00:51:32:23 Unknown Speaker: Have, Have.

00:51:32:25 - 00:51:36:10 Unknown Speaker: You.

00:51:36:12 - 00:51:42:19 Unknown Speaker: Ever.

00:51:42:21 - 00:51:55:18 Unknown Speaker: Had.

00:51:55:21 - 00:52:05:15 Unknown Speaker: Anything in.

00:52:05:17 - 00:52:44:00 Unknown Speaker: And it’s happening right now.

00:52:44:03 - 00:52:48:23 Unknown Speaker: I’m.

00:52:49:14 - 00:52:59:04 Leonard Feather: This arrangement of that whole feeling is played by man in Ferguson’s band and written by Bill Holman.

00:53:18:21 - 00:53:47:01 Unknown Speaker: And.

00:53:47:03 - 00:54:00:29 Unknown Speaker: By,

00:54:01:01 - 00:54:11:26 Unknown Speaker: My.

00:54:11:29 - 00:54:35:09 Art Farmer: It sounds like, it was written for a band to play at a high school prom or something. You know, dance band, you know? I didn’t I didn’t really hear anything there that I liked, but the sounded like they were pretty good. musicians. At one point, a song, it might have been made at first, and then.

00:54:35:11 - 00:54:44:06 Art Farmer: But, it was seemed to be geared to a certain, segment of the record buying audience.

00:54:44:08 - 00:54:46:11 Leonard Feather: Yeah. In other words, commercial.

00:54:46:13 - 00:54:54:28 Art Farmer: Yeah. seem to be written for people that really don’t listen, but in depth to anything. And I don’t think the guys cared for it too much.

00:54:54:28 - 00:55:08:00 Leonard Feather: Was, you mean the guys playing it? Do you feel that there is a way of reconciling commercial demands for that kind of audience with artistic integrity?

00:55:08:02 - 00:55:15:18 Art Farmer: Well, I think that the most, the most, commercial that a person can be is to be as good as they can be.

00:55:15:21 - 00:55:20:28 Leonard Feather: And I believe, generally speaking, is right. But, not everybody feels that way. No one.

00:55:21:00 - 00:55:37:01 Art Farmer: Everybody doesn’t feel that way. But, it just happens. You know, it happens again and again like that. You see someone come, come up who really believes in what he’s doing, and he’s doing it very well. And the, commercial.

00:55:37:04 - 00:55:52:11 Leonard Feather: When you look back on it, you know, as the years go by, you can see that what was originally uncommercial, even going back to Benny Gibbons, they, he was supposed to be uncommercial by having a band that played jazz at all, you know? and now, he is considered in almost in the pop market. In fact, he is.

00:55:52:13 - 00:55:57:12 Leonard Feather: So I think that proves what you say. In effect,

00:55:57:14 - 00:56:10:06 Art Farmer: There are many, subtle little pitfalls to, you know, when you’re trying to hold a band together, sell some records, you find yourself slipping into these things, you know, things that you really don’t like.

00:56:10:08 - 00:56:11:06 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I believe you.

00:56:11:06 - 00:56:17:00 Art Farmer: It never works, though. it just doesn’t work. Well, I couldn’t write that.

00:56:17:02 - 00:56:19:25 Leonard Feather: I wouldn’t write it at all. Not even little. One little bell,

00:56:19:28 - 00:56:22:25 Art Farmer: You know, I could get,

00:56:22:28 - 00:56:42:12 Leonard Feather: You gave her the top. Well, I’m sure that was a mistake. Let’s say you had this in mind an octave lower. Yeah, that was Maynard Ferguson’s band. As a matter of fact, that was Bill Holman’s arrangement. And it was one of those albums they made that are specifically, according to the information on the record itself, designed for dancing.

00:56:42:15 - 00:56:43:17 Art Farmer: So,

00:56:43:19 - 00:56:50:15 Leonard Feather: They don’t deny that it’s commercially intended, although whether they succeeded or not is probably as a matter of, you know.

00:56:50:18 - 00:57:02:10 Art Farmer: There’s nothing wrong with giving a thing that way. You know, if, if that’s what you want to do, you know, being, this is a blindfold test, you know, right on on quality.

00:57:02:12 - 00:57:26:03 Leonard Feather: Exactly. That’s that’s what’s important about these interviews that, you have to write them just as they sound and not in terms of what you read about what they were intended for. So they have to sound good sort of in a vacuum or in completely subjective terms. Yes. And I prefer to judge all music that’s that way. And I think that’s the only intelligent and, logical way to judge music.

00:57:26:05 - 00:57:42:28 Leonard Feather: Thank you so much, Art, for being, our guest on the Blindfold Test. And lots of luck to you in your travels across the country with the Jazz Test, which I really believe is one of the finest new groups that have come up in the past year in jazz. And I know the Argo records are doing wonderfully continued success to them to.

00:57:43:07 - 00:57:44:03 Art Farmer: thank you very much.

00:57:44:07 - 00:57:50:22 Leonard Feather: My best to Benny Golson.

00:57:50:24 - 00:57:53:14 Leonard Feather: Tune in again.

00:57:53:16 - 00:57:56:14 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: For the.

00:57:56:17 - 00:58:03:11 Leonard Feather: Same time next week. You.

00:58:03:14 - 00:58:08:12 Leonard Feather: And.

00:58:08:15 - 00:58:14:09 Leonard Feather: For Leonard Feather.

00:58:14:11 - 00:58:33:28 Leonard Feather: And the blindfold test.