Joe Williams (Blindfold Test), February [1961?] [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:14:21 Leonard Feather: The blindfold test.

00:00:14:24 - 00:00:26:12 Leonard Feather: With Leonard Feather, you.

00:00:26:14 - 00:00:32:09 Leonard Feather: Today’s guest.

00:00:32:11 - 00:00:46:14 Leonard Feather: Joe Williams.

00:00:46:17 - 00:01:10:26 Leonard Feather: Once again, greetings and modulations. This is Leonard Feather welcoming you to another session in which we examine the perception, knowledge and opinions. One of the great figures in contemporary music. We’re happy to welcome, on this occasion a gentleman whom we’ve known as a friend and admired as an artist for some 6 or 7 years since around the time he joined the Count Basie organization.

00:01:10:29 - 00:01:28:15 Leonard Feather: Of course, he’s out on his own now and enjoying the same great success as a single that he did with the Basie group. And we’re very happy to welcome to Los Angeles, and also to say hello to Joe Williams as he joins the blindfold test microphone. Good evening, Joe.

00:01:28:17 - 00:01:33:04 Joe Williams: Good evening Lynn. And it’s a real pleasure to be here with you on the blindfold test.

00:01:33:06 - 00:02:02:06 Leonard Feather: Well, Joe, as you know, it was about a year ago that we did our last blindfold test in downbeat. And at that time I concentrated rather heavily, I think, on blues singers. I think more than half of the records I played were were in that general category. So I thought maybe for a change of pace and because you yourself have directed yourself in a in a more general sphere of singing lately, in other words, showing that you have a great deal more to offer than the blues.

00:02:02:06 - 00:02:12:25 Leonard Feather: Not that the blues isn’t a magnificent entity in itself. It might be of interest to play some records of something in the general sphere of pop singing, as well as just blues. All right. With you?

00:02:12:27 - 00:02:17:09 Joe Williams: Wonderful, because I think some of the, pop singers sing with a lot of jazz feeling.

00:02:17:11 - 00:02:31:12 Leonard Feather: There’s no question about that. And you may agree about some of the particular ones that, that I’ve selected for the particular occasion now. So we’ll go to record number one. And here it is, one.

00:02:31:15 - 00:03:03:26 Unknown Speaker: Two, three, four. Go and get on the right track, baby. You’re on the right track, baby. Get on the right track, baby. Yeah. Come on home and treat me wrong again. Get on the right track A baby. Get on the right track, baby. Get on the right track. Baby. Oh come on, oh man.

00:03:03:29 - 00:03:09:10 Unknown Treat me wrong again. Whoa I feel so.

00:03:09:10 - 00:03:30:12 Unknown Speaker: Blue and lonely. On both night and day. I’m telling you just one more time. Come back even if you don’t stay. Get on the right track, baby. You better get on the track now, child. Get on the right track. Baby.

00:03:30:15 - 00:03:36:09 Unknown Oh, come on home and treat me wrong again.

00:03:36:11 - 00:04:02:17 Unknown Speaker: Yeah I know you know I love you baby. And yet you broke my heart. And you. But it’s because I love you. And I don’t care what I do. Get on the right track, baby. You better come on home and, Get on the right track. Baby, don’t. Oh well, come on home and.

00:04:02:19 - 00:04:10:20 Unknown Treat me wrong again.

00:04:10:22 - 00:04:14:21 Unknown And.

00:04:14:24 - 00:04:19:06 Unknown Baby, you.

00:04:19:08 - 00:04:25:16 Leonard Feather: Can hear me. This is Sammy Davis Jr.

00:04:25:18 - 00:04:34:04 Unknown And.

00:04:34:06 - 00:04:37:00 Unknown Where? You know I’m mad at you.

00:04:37:00 - 00:04:38:11 Unknown Speaker: Really, baby.

00:04:38:14 - 00:04:43:04 Unknown But I’m down to my bed. Let me so please.

00:04:43:07 - 00:04:55:06 Unknown Speaker: Please come home and set my heart free. Now what I say now what I say right now.

00:04:55:06 - 00:04:56:09 Speaker 5 Baby.

00:04:56:12 - 00:05:17:25 Unknown And yet I come on home and you treat me wrong again. That’s what I say.

00:05:17:27 - 00:05:18:26 Speaker 5 Well.

00:05:18:29 - 00:05:28:03 Leonard Feather: I said we were not going to play blues records exclusively, but I didn’t say you weren’t going to play any. As you gathered, no doubt. How about that, Joe?

00:05:28:06 - 00:05:34:23 Joe Williams: Well, this is, really exciting performance by Sammy Davis, who obviously loves Ray Charles.

00:05:34:27 - 00:05:44:25 Leonard Feather: It got me so excited that I told the audience who it was, and I said, Sammy can’t hear me, but this is Sammy Davis Jr, so, I’ll switch that around with Joe, who couldn’t hear me.

00:05:45:20 - 00:06:06:22 Joe Williams: yeah. That was, Sammy Davis Junior, and I think I recognized, a few horns in the background there that sound a little like little of the Basie group. The tenor solo sounded a little like Frank foster. That’s right. And, the, lead alto, Marshall Royal was riding back there in the background that pretty sound of his.

00:06:06:25 - 00:06:11:12 Leonard Feather: Yes, as a matter of fact, it’s just about the entire Basie band, as you probably know. Do you have this album?

00:06:11:13 - 00:06:13:26 Joe Williams: No, I don’t have this particular album.

00:06:13:28 - 00:06:14:22 Leonard Feather: That you know about.

00:06:14:22 - 00:06:16:15 Joe Williams: This was,

00:06:16:17 - 00:06:18:28 Leonard Feather: You know, the kind of material, you know, the origin of this material.

00:06:18:28 - 00:06:29:04 Joe Williams: I know, how this came about. Yes. because, I was pretty close to it at the time that it was. They were getting it together. Fellas were talking about it. I didn’t go to any of the dates. There’s that still. Is that a Decca recording?

00:06:29:06 - 00:06:30:03 Leonard Feather: That’s right.

00:06:30:28 - 00:06:32:08 Joe Williams: I guess it was done in Decca Studios,

00:06:32:13 - 00:06:34:02 Leonard Feather: I suppose so what do you think of the recording?

00:06:34:02 - 00:06:37:14 Joe Williams: Yeah, I didn’t like it. Really?

00:06:37:18 - 00:06:41:23 Leonard Feather: Yeah. That’s what I gather from your expressions while listening to a couple things.

00:06:41:26 - 00:06:49:18 Joe Williams: You know, I didn’t like that. did the sound. There was a lot of, harshness there. It’s not as if the band was way away from Sammy.

00:06:49:22 - 00:06:50:27 Leonard Feather: Sort of too much echo.

00:06:51:05 - 00:06:56:22 Joe Williams: yeah. Rather than him singing with the band, it sounded more like he was performing with a track. And,

00:06:56:25 - 00:06:57:25 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:06:59:13 - 00:07:16:29 Joe Williams: just didn’t have the the spontaneous feeling. The spontaneous feeling that usually would go along with a Sammy Davis type thing. Yeah, I love Sammy. I think Sammy is one of the most terrific performers that we have. He’s been concentrating quite a bit on acting and other things and, not so much in the record field in recent years, though.

00:07:17:02 - 00:07:34:25 Leonard Feather: Well, this was made, during the last year. And, I’ve heard it said that Sammy is, singer without originality. With that personally, I still think he’s a wonderful singer. And I wonder if you think that that has any validity as a criticism that he doesn’t have a style or a sound of his own, but he sings other people’s hits and so forth?

00:07:34:27 - 00:07:40:27 Joe Williams: No, I like some of the things that I’ve heard Sammy do. For instance, da da da da da.

00:07:40:27 - 00:07:43:14 Speaker 5 Da da da da. He did.

00:07:43:16 - 00:07:44:01 Joe Williams: This is my.

00:07:44:01 - 00:07:44:29 Leonard Feather: Beloved. Oh, yeah.

00:07:45:15 - 00:07:54:29 Joe Williams: beautiful thing by Sammy. I haven’t heard it done any better by anyone. Yeah. Also from Porgy and Bess. This thing. Bobby.

00:07:54:29 - 00:08:00:24 Speaker 5 Dudududu Dudududu did, the, the the,

00:08:00:26 - 00:08:01:29 Leonard Feather: You got me. I forgot the.

00:08:01:29 - 00:08:03:13 Joe Williams: Title. That’s. Where is my.

00:08:03:13 - 00:08:04:09 Leonard Feather: Best. Where is my best?

00:08:04:11 - 00:08:19:23 Joe Williams: Where is my best? I don’t think anyone I don’t I haven’t heard a recording of this by anyone any better than Sammy Davis recording. For feeling for a good sound. Sammy is very much in tune on these things and I love it. I think he’s a tremendous artist.

00:08:19:25 - 00:08:35:06 Leonard Feather: Well people are afraid to admit about him I suppose. Is that everything he does, he does. Well they find that hard to accept, you know. Oh, you got to find some weak area that’s too. Well, I’m, I guess we have to have a rating. Oh, if you’re busy drinking the coffee, I don’t want interrupt it for your writing.

00:08:35:06 - 00:08:38:12 Leonard Feather: However, we’d like to get along to the next record. So there is the hammer.

00:08:38:14 - 00:08:45:09 Joe Williams: We must have a rating on this record. right. we’ll give this one. Two stars.

00:08:45:09 - 00:08:59:20 Leonard Feather: Two bells for a Sammy Davis Jr. And we have a record coming up now. And I’m not quite sure if you’ve heard this artist before or if you’ll recognize him, but it’s of some interest. I think his record number two.

00:09:00:23 - 00:09:34:03 Speaker 5 I see you want me to like a how? I don’t mind the way you tell. But if you touch me, something’s got to give. I love life and love and love and live a little. The diamond ring and my money to tomorrow night. To could belong to you. The girls move me at the wheel I live the life of love and love.

00:09:34:03 - 00:10:36:28 Speaker 5 The love live. And mainly under the love. Stand up tomorrow night I can’t cover your dance. Next week I could be over the hill. I’m just trying to tell you people how I feel. You see me rocking as I pass you by. They’ll talk about me. Girls I could be high. Just forgive me if you will I live a life of love and and learn livelier.

00:10:37:00 - 00:11:10:05 Speaker 5 Well, let me lay a hundred on a bet. This time tomorrow night I kick. When you dance next week I could be over the hill. But I’m just trying to tell you people how I feel. You see me rock. Unless I pass you by. Don’t talk about me. Cause I could be high. Just forgive me if you will I live the life you love.

00:11:10:05 - 00:11:23:05 Speaker 5 And learn to live a little bit better.

00:11:23:07 - 00:11:26:20 Joe Williams: Lynn, that was Mississippi’s Mose Allison.

00:11:26:23 - 00:11:29:08 Leonard Feather: Oh, yeah. Too hard to fool.

00:11:29:11 - 00:11:46:21 Joe Williams: And, I like this man. He’s a versatile artist. He plays good piano, too, as well as being a, real different sound. Yeah, a vocal. I’ve heard everybody sound like they said, there’s only one person I can think of who, I could compare him with, and that’s Hoagy Carmichael.

00:11:46:21 - 00:11:50:10 Leonard Feather: I often think of that. You know, he has a great resemblance to Hoagy Carmichael.

00:11:50:12 - 00:11:50:23 Joe Williams: Yes.

00:11:50:23 - 00:11:52:22 Leonard Feather: This thing and hoagies from Indiana.

00:11:53:12 - 00:12:00:07 Joe Williams: really, I really what, is he really a Hoosier? I wonder sometimes when I listen to him and Johnny Mercer, you know. Yeah. They really.

00:12:00:07 - 00:12:00:12 Leonard Feather: Who?

00:12:00:12 - 00:12:04:14 Joe Williams: Johnny Mercer charging for this? you know, I wonder.

00:12:04:25 - 00:12:06:05 Leonard Feather: That’s interesting, a good record.

00:12:06:29 - 00:12:11:25 Joe Williams: I have to give that one three bells.

00:12:11:28 - 00:12:14:05 Joe Williams: Good enough. Easy listening.

00:12:14:07 - 00:12:43:22 Leonard Feather: Three bells for Mose Allison. you know, the rating for bells is very good. And if ever it gets beyond that, we have the panic button. There for the possible five star attractions. But we don’t have those. But very, very rarely. Who knows what might happen next? Here is record number three. Another male vocalist.

00:12:43:25 - 00:12:50:26 Unknown Speaker: Of.

00:12:50:28 - 00:12:54:26 Unknown Speaker: Hey. Say.

00:12:54:28 - 00:13:01:05 Unknown Ruby. like a dream.

00:13:01:07 - 00:13:07:04 Unknown Speaker: Not always. What you seem.

00:13:07:06 - 00:13:15:08 Unknown And though my heart may break when I awake.

00:13:15:10 - 00:13:15:29 Unknown Speaker: Let it be.

00:13:15:29 - 00:13:27:01 Unknown So. only know Ruby, it’s you.

00:13:27:04 - 00:13:53:03 Unknown Speaker: They say Ruby, like a song. You just don’t know right from wrong. And the in your eyes I see heartaches for me. Right from the start.

00:13:53:10 - 00:14:02:12 Unknown Ooh. Stole my heart. Ruby, it’s you.

00:14:02:14 - 00:14:16:10 Speaker 5 I hear your voice is. And, It must come to you. Must come to you. I have no.

00:14:16:10 - 00:14:26:03 Unknown Choice. So what else can I do? There’s never do.

00:14:26:05 - 00:14:30:05 Speaker 5 They say.

00:14:30:08 - 00:14:38:05 Unknown Speaker: Ruby, you’re like a flame in into my life.

00:14:38:05 - 00:14:44:05 Unknown You hear? When and though I should be.

00:14:44:05 - 00:14:52:26 Unknown Speaker: Well still I just don’t give you. Thrill me so.

00:14:52:28 - 00:15:02:08 Unknown I only know you will be it. You.

00:15:02:11 - 00:15:14:23 Unknown My girl. Oh, oh. And I must come to.

00:15:14:26 - 00:15:27:02 Unknown Love the joy to see. What else can I do? What can I do?

00:15:27:04 - 00:15:30:08 Unknown And say.

00:15:30:10 - 00:15:38:11 Unknown Speaker: Ruby, you’re like a flame into my life.

00:15:38:11 - 00:15:42:05 Unknown You came in.

00:15:42:07 - 00:15:44:09 Unknown Speaker: And though I should be.

00:15:44:09 - 00:15:51:14 Unknown Well still I don’t care.

00:15:51:16 - 00:15:56:22 Unknown Speaker: You thrill me so,

00:15:56:24 - 00:16:11:24 Speaker 5 All in. No, Ruby. It’s you.

00:16:11:27 - 00:16:20:00 Speaker 5 You.

00:16:20:02 - 00:16:28:23 Speaker 5 Know.

00:16:28:26 - 00:16:30:01 Leonard Feather: You heard that one before, Joe?

00:16:30:16 - 00:16:36:20 Joe Williams: I heard it once or twice. Leonard and the singer is Ray Charles. And,

00:16:36:22 - 00:16:38:09 Leonard Feather: I mean, it’s not the Ray Charles Singers.

00:16:38:09 - 00:16:42:09 Joe Williams: However, it’s not the Ray Charles thing is, you better believe it or not. Even the Ray. Let’s.

00:16:42:25 - 00:16:43:29 Speaker 5 No, I don’t think so.

00:16:44:00 - 00:17:17:21 Joe Williams: No, I’m very funny about tunes like this and things like Ruby and Stella, Starlight and even, Stardust and a few others. Yeah, things that I like to hear instrumentally. Scuse me. And I don’t particularly care for the, the lyrics of The unit. You know, I, I don’t even sing them. I don’t know the lyrics to any of these things because I don’t do I listen to like, a Bob Farnham thing on the Robert Farnham or, Pete King type arrangement, you know, or Percy Faith or something like that.

00:17:17:21 - 00:17:39:24 Joe Williams: I love you for listening. Pleasure. And the lyrics to these things I Ain’t Never Really Get to Me is a story wise and, consequently, but, but, I don’t, I just don’t dig the lyrics on them or songs being sung like that, but I like the pretty melody. It’s a beautiful thing and the beautiful arrangement.

00:17:39:27 - 00:17:52:22 Joe Williams: I don’t even know whose arrangement it is, but it’s wonderful. I don’t have this record either, but, because of the beauty of the arrangement and the the easy listening quality of it, I’ll give it two stars.

00:17:52:24 - 00:18:01:21 Leonard Feather: Two bells. All right. That’s for Ruby by Ray Charles with Marty Page’s arrangement. He wrote the album. Righty page. That’s right.

00:18:01:24 - 00:18:03:11 Joe Williams: Beautiful. Marty Page.

00:18:03:11 - 00:18:06:26 Leonard Feather: Beautiful man. Doing some great vocal accompaniment work.

00:18:06:28 - 00:18:10:18 Joe Williams: I love Raytheon. Things like, come rain and come shine.

00:18:10:20 - 00:18:13:23 Leonard Feather: And, yeah, I prefer that kind of ballad from a sort of a blues.

00:18:13:23 - 00:18:16:24 Joe Williams: Or ruby blues. I mean, Gene is, you know.

00:18:16:26 - 00:18:25:03 Leonard Feather: I personally don’t dig Ruby as, material for any singer with any kind of jazz association. I just don’t think it’s right.

00:18:25:05 - 00:18:35:09 Joe Williams: I think it would be fun in a story on the stage or in a motion picture, in a story where the girl was a real character, a real life character, such as a Sadie Thompson and Rain.

00:18:35:14 - 00:18:38:08 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I would guess, or

00:18:38:19 - 00:18:40:22 Joe Williams: maybe another different, Laura type character.

00:18:40:23 - 00:18:43:18 Leonard Feather: But with no context like this is fairly meaningless.

00:18:43:18 - 00:18:45:11 Joe Williams: I think that it is to me anyway.

00:18:45:11 - 00:18:46:17 Leonard Feather: Yeah, well, that makes two of us.

00:18:46:17 - 00:18:47:27 Joe Williams: But beautiful arrangement.

00:18:47:27 - 00:18:48:28 Leonard Feather: That’s true. And the beautiful.

00:18:48:28 - 00:18:56:24 Joe Williams: And. Well. And he sings it, easy. But, I’d rather hear a song. You come back, baby, let’s talk it over one more.

00:18:57:18 - 00:18:58:07 Leonard Feather: we need to.

00:18:58:17 - 00:19:07:11 Joe Williams: it brings a tandem, into my eyes. And I’m beginning to realize that everybody, like some people, maybe would rather just hear me sing every day I have the blues.

00:19:07:13 - 00:19:18:08 Leonard Feather: Well, I take great delight in hearing you sing it myself, but I don’t think you should stop there. And I think it’s foolish to limit yourself to anything. When you feel you have another string to your bone, and you’ve been wise that way.

00:19:18:11 - 00:19:38:14 Joe Williams: Thank you so much, Leonard. I’m. I’m very happy with the the new bit that we’re doing as a soloist. And, it gives you a wider scope. I plan to do some, some religious things, some spiritual things and some folk songs too, and possibly some, semi classics and, try to broaden the scope as much as possible.

00:19:38:18 - 00:19:39:14 Leonard Feather: I’m with you.

00:19:39:16 - 00:19:40:25 Joe Williams: Good deal.

00:19:40:28 - 00:19:57:00 Leonard Feather: All right. Record number four.

00:20:31:00 - 00:20:47:27 Speaker 5 There’s a Paul Harris right next door to hell. But it’s.

00:20:47:29 - 00:20:55:08 Unknown Like heaven from a prison.

00:20:55:10 - 00:20:59:00 Speaker 5 So there’s a.

00:20:59:02 - 00:21:04:27 Unknown Cold back alley.

00:21:05:00 - 00:21:15:08 Speaker 5 Where the children yell. Now it’s songs.

00:21:15:08 - 00:21:20:12 Unknown Like music from up You.

00:21:20:13 - 00:21:22:00 Speaker 5 Zone.

00:21:22:00 - 00:21:27:10 Unknown So there’s a girl who.

00:21:27:10 - 00:21:31:03 Speaker 5 Wanders on a windy street.

00:21:31:06 - 00:22:08:10 Unknown A girl who gave to me a love song. Bitter sweet. Now what you my right arm for one side of her. True love and love again. The sheer delight of war. She’s of God. Love power. But I loathe so. But how long.

00:22:08:10 - 00:22:11:02 Speaker 5 The journey.

00:22:11:04 - 00:22:14:26 Unknown From of her own.

00:22:14:29 - 00:22:24:15 Speaker 5 Soul.

00:22:38:10 - 00:22:45:13 Unknown Who?

00:22:45:16 - 00:22:47:18 Leonard Feather: Rather a strange one.

00:22:47:20 - 00:23:06:05 Joe Williams: Well, I’ll tell you what Mel told me. He’s going to try a lot of strange things. he has the talent to do it, and he’s, a lot of things that, that Mel probably wants to do and, writes and thinks about. I’m surprised he hasn’t got a play or something. Been a Broadway thing. He should.

00:23:06:09 - 00:23:28:04 Joe Williams: That’s right. Because he, he has so many facets, so many talents, and, he’s such a versatile performer. An excellent actor, too. I I’ve seen him. I saw him on TV a couple of times and was very impressed with him. And he gets good strength, you know, and, gets into his character there. And, the things that I’ve seen him in TV, I’m not prejudiced because he’s from Chicago, too.

00:23:29:13 - 00:23:31:06 Joe Williams: Oh, Hyde Park, friend of ours.

00:23:31:06 - 00:23:33:23 Leonard Feather: Yeah. Do you happen to know, where the song is from?

00:23:33:27 - 00:23:36:13 Joe Williams: No, I don’t I don’t know where this particular tune is from.

00:23:36:16 - 00:23:37:10 Leonard Feather: Broadway show.

00:23:37:27 - 00:23:40:17 Joe Williams: hum. Which one?

00:23:40:19 - 00:23:41:18 Leonard Feather: Yeah, my, I do.

00:23:42:07 - 00:23:53:08 Joe Williams: I mean, I do, my friend was speaking to me and telling me I should see him in the deuce, and, I’m taking her advice, but just taking her advice, I would have seen it and would have known where it was from and everything.

00:23:53:08 - 00:24:00:11 Leonard Feather: Well, that wasn’t important anyway, because we were mainly concerned with your reaction to Mel. Because by not loving my pretending that.

00:24:00:13 - 00:24:20:15 Joe Williams: I love me, I caught his opening. I got Mel’s opening in the roundtable in New York City. Oh, this was so beautiful. Wonderful. Tommy Potter, who was on base with us over at, the guys did. Tommy Potter is, was with him that night, and I took notice that he was, sight reading his act and, you know, and sounding very, very good.

00:24:20:17 - 00:24:26:16 Joe Williams: Good act. A real great act. Mel’s going back in there, I understand, which is, a mark of a good act.

00:24:26:19 - 00:24:27:17 Leonard Feather: Yeah, sure.

00:24:29:01 - 00:24:46:26 Joe Williams: Mel, you have such a beautiful. He has such a beautiful, beautiful voice, and his voice is getting bigger. I said, it’s a beautiful little voice. It. He has a his voice is getting much bigger and in sound. And, he with his innocent face of his. I don’t see how he could be, his voice could be coming from a prison cell.

00:24:46:26 - 00:24:50:05 Joe Williams: I don’t believe it is telling me. I don’t believe it. But, you.

00:24:50:05 - 00:24:51:19 Leonard Feather: See, you have a point there. Maybe.

00:24:51:19 - 00:25:09:04 Joe Williams: But, for, the very fact that they they that he’s doing something that’s so different and so, that he dared to do something a little different than the average singer is doing today. It isn’t easy to do this kind of thing. I don’t think it is. Anyway, I’d like to give it, three, three bells.

00:25:09:07 - 00:25:12:26 Joe Williams: All right.

00:25:13:03 - 00:25:23:09 Leonard Feather: we set up with the next record. We will do. We have the track selected? I believe we do. And here we go. Here it is.

00:25:23:11 - 00:25:33:03 Unknown Oh. Oh.

00:25:33:06 - 00:26:15:13 Speaker 5 Black cats walk across my path until I’m almost mad. I must arouse the devil’s wrath. Cause all my luck is bad. I make a date for God. And you can bet your life it rains. I try to give a party and the guy upstairs complains. I guess I’ll go through life just catching colds and rain. Everything happened to me.

00:26:15:16 - 00:26:33:29 Speaker 5 I never miss a thing. I’ve had the measles and the mumps. And every time I play an ace, my partner always troubles. I guess I’m just a fool.

00:26:33:29 - 00:26:38:05 Unknown Who never looks before me. Me.

00:26:38:07 - 00:26:45:20 Speaker 5 Cause everything happens to me.

00:26:45:23 - 00:27:12:01 Speaker 5 At first I thought that you could break this jinx for me. That love would turn the trick to. And spell. But now I just can’t fool this head. The things for me. I’ve mortgaged all my castles.

00:27:12:01 - 00:27:15:22 Unknown In the air.

00:27:16:23 - 00:27:42:21 Speaker 5 telegraph and phone. Set an airmail special to your answer was goodbye. And there was even postage to. I fell in love just once. And then it had to be with you. Everything happened.

00:27:42:23 - 00:27:47:24 Unknown To me.

00:27:47:26 - 00:27:57:16 Unknown And?

00:27:57:18 - 00:28:15:06 Unknown I.

00:28:17:05 - 00:28:50:29 Speaker 5 telegraphed that phone. Sent an error mail special to. Your answer was goodbye. And there was even postage due. I fell in love just once. And then it had to be with you. Everything happens to me. Everything happens to.

00:28:50:29 - 00:28:59:09 Unknown Me.

00:28:59:11 - 00:29:04:29 Unknown And I.

00:29:05:02 - 00:29:14:12 Leonard Feather: Well, Joe. And that was about one third of the way through. I asked you if you knew who it was and you said no. I figured I’d finally stumped you. But now there’s a gleam of recognition in your eye.

00:29:14:15 - 00:29:17:12 Joe Williams: I’m going to take up drums next week. That’s all I gotta say.

00:29:17:13 - 00:29:19:24 Unknown Speaker: Oh, no.

00:29:19:26 - 00:29:39:24 Joe Williams: It dawned on me that, That buddy, when he was with Verve, buddy Rich, when he was with very records, did make, an attempt at being a singer. And I used to kill him about it all the time. I’d walk in a club and I’d say to him, buddy, do you have your HGV, a card? Yeah, and stuff like that.

00:29:39:24 - 00:29:55:11 Joe Williams: You know, you’re after you give me your after card. I’m not going to let you sing anymore because he’s one of my favorite people. definitely one of my one of my favorite drummers and, but he made a mix of what we call, in our family. A nice noise.

00:29:55:17 - 00:29:55:28 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:29:55:29 - 00:30:15:25 Joe Williams: He makes a nice, pleasant, even easy noise singing. And my friend associates everything with noise. Matches my. But he’s playing drums. He says now he makes a nice noise on drums. Yeah. And, when, she has a Sinatra record or something, and she says, that’s a nice noise. And when Harry meets Edison plays trumpet, she says he makes a nice noise.

00:30:15:25 - 00:30:29:18 Joe Williams: And Joe Newman, he makes a nice noise on a preteen, and she calls him the elegant Mr. Newman, a pretty noise on, on trumpet. And, so we’ve come to associate almost everything with noise, and. But he made a very nice noise there.

00:30:29:21 - 00:30:38:13 Leonard Feather: Good enough. Well, did you identify him by by annoying him from his speaking voice? I mean, how did the little flame of recognition spark up?

00:30:38:15 - 00:31:02:25 Joe Williams: Well, in listening to the, to the record, I began to the to listen for inflections and and things that, would familiarize that that sounded familiar to me. And, all of a sudden I says, well, now that this couldn’t be a young man, there’s another young singer I know. I worked with him up in, Buffalo.

00:31:03:21 - 00:31:19:29 Joe Williams: he’s a swinging singer. His big record, I understand, was this thing of, Steve Allen’s call. this could be the start of something big, and I couldn’t think of his name for the life of me. And then all of a sudden, the sound of buddy’s voice actually came to me.

00:31:19:29 - 00:31:24:17 Leonard Feather: That’s what I mean. I think if you know his speaking voice as well as you and I do, that’s going to identify.

00:31:24:19 - 00:31:32:27 Joe Williams: Not only that, there was the throwback to that Axl’s startle type background sound to to help me. That was that, Axl started.

00:31:32:27 - 00:31:33:16 Leonard Feather: Yeah. That’s right.

00:31:33:16 - 00:31:42:16 Joe Williams: Type background, the type of thing that Sinatra used to do, shortly after he left the band. And, of course, Axl did things for Tommy Dorsey, too.

00:31:42:16 - 00:31:46:06 Leonard Feather: I think Matt Dennis was an arranger for Tommy’s band when he wrote the song, too.

00:31:46:07 - 00:32:02:21 Joe Williams: That’s true. And, I thought immediately of Matt and then this is this fresh, fresh sound. actors. Oh, I don’t know who this is. When you ask me. And then. And listening and concentrating, it came to me that it was buddy Rich.

00:32:02:24 - 00:32:07:23 Leonard Feather: Well, let’s go with the bells.

00:32:07:26 - 00:32:23:09 Leonard Feather: Three bells for Buddy Rich’s record of everything Happens to Me, from his singing swing with buddy Rich album on Verve. Thank you. Joe, I’d like to take just a moment out now. Offer station identification.

00:32:23:11 - 00:32:40:11 Leonard Feather: This is Leonard Feather with a blindfold test. Our guest today is Joe Williams, and we’re coming up now with record number six for Joe’s consideration. But on occasion.

00:32:40:13 - 00:32:43:16 Speaker 5 We get.

00:32:43:18 - 00:33:02:27 Speaker 5 To show me the way to get out of this world. Because that’s where everything is. If everything is going, I don’t want to stay here. Who wants to stick around and watch the world disappear? Met a few girls way down the line and I’d go back and get them. But I haven’t time. So show me the way to get out of this world.

00:33:02:28 - 00:33:26:05 Speaker 5 Because that’s where everything is.

00:33:26:08 - 00:33:39:10 Speaker 5 Oh.

00:33:39:12 - 00:34:06:27 Speaker 5 Oh.

00:34:07:00 - 00:34:11:11 Speaker 5 Be ready to be.

00:34:11:13 - 00:34:19:29 Speaker 5 I do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do.

00:34:20:02 - 00:34:26:24 Unknown Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo do. But do do me that you.

00:34:26:26 - 00:34:44:17 Speaker 5 Can show me the way to get out of this world. That’s where everything is. If everything is going, I don’t want to stay here. But want to stick around and watch the world disappear. Met a few chicks way down the line. Can I go back and get them? But you might as well forget it. Show me the way to get out of this world.

00:34:44:22 - 00:35:00:04 Speaker 5 Because that’s where everything is. You can show me the way to get out of this world, because that’s where everything is. You can show me the way to get out of this world, cause that’s where everything else.

00:35:00:07 - 00:35:04:00 Joe Williams: That’s the first time I ever heard Bob Flanagan sing a solo.

00:35:04:28 - 00:35:07:10 Joe Williams: That sounded like Bob Flanagan to me.

00:35:07:13 - 00:35:08:09 Leonard Feather: That’s amazing.

00:35:08:09 - 00:35:09:25 Joe Williams: With the with the four freshmen.

00:35:10:15 - 00:35:12:28 Joe Williams: And it’s the first time I’ve ever heard him do a solo.

00:35:13:01 - 00:35:17:03 Leonard Feather: I’m afraid you’re right. Oh, no, I just the unforgettable Joe Williams.

00:35:17:04 - 00:35:27:14 Joe Williams: No, I wouldn’t say that, but, But Bob is, as you must know, I ran into the freshmen in Chicago, Illinois, while I was still singing with Jay Burkhart orchestra.

00:35:27:14 - 00:35:28:05 Leonard Feather: Oh, yes.

00:35:28:05 - 00:35:35:01 Joe Williams: And, we only had the off night and the, in the blue note that when it was still in the basement there.

00:35:35:07 - 00:35:35:16 Leonard Feather: On.

00:35:35:23 - 00:35:57:05 Joe Williams: Madison Avenue between Dearborn and Clark and, and working the two off nights during the five day week with Jay Burkhart. So kids stood the main like the headliner there, I think, was, a fellow named Harry Belafonte. This was in about 49, and, he was singing, ballads and things like that. This is before he came back to New York and started to do a folk work.

00:35:58:17 - 00:36:17:27 Joe Williams: one night, Jay Burkhart brought these young men, these four young men in to sing for Frank whole thing. And for the blue night, group, the Blue Note group, rather. And, I heard the freshmen, and then, I worked the job with them, sometime after that, in, 49, at a bowling alley, in a lounge, in a bowling alley.

00:36:17:27 - 00:36:20:01 Joe Williams: Way out south, someplace south of Chicago.

00:36:20:01 - 00:36:26:10 Leonard Feather: I forgot they had bowling alleys and 49. No, no, no, no, they have one on every block. That’s right. It was every other block in the.

00:36:26:16 - 00:36:45:29 Joe Williams: yes. And I worked with these fellows, and, I love them. I still think that, the Baltimore Oriole that they did, years ago, I think that have it that has never been touched as far as that beautiful Baltimore Orioles that the freshmen did. And for old Bob, we’ll give Bob three stars.

00:36:46:16 - 00:36:54:08 Leonard Feather: all right. I suppose that was probably Bob doing the bass solo, too. He was on on trombone. And since they featured him as a solo vocalist there.

00:36:54:09 - 00:36:57:06 Joe Williams: That’s right. It was probably Bob doing both.

00:36:57:08 - 00:37:02:13 Leonard Feather: They don’t mention in the liner notes, but they don’t mention very much of anything in the liner notes, so you can’t figure it out.

00:37:02:18 - 00:37:08:05 Joe Williams: This is such a great tune. I don’t think anybody’s done it except Peggy Lee and possibly this group. It’s such a good tune.

00:37:08:12 - 00:37:11:05 Leonard Feather: One of those cute 16 bar things. It’s fun, beautiful tunes.

00:37:11:05 - 00:37:18:29 Joe Williams: Show me the way to get out of this world, because that’s where everything is. Yeah, it’s a great thing, but I don’t want to stay here. Who wants to stick around and watch the world disappear?

00:37:19:28 - 00:37:20:25 Leonard Feather: have you sung it?

00:37:20:28 - 00:37:28:04 Joe Williams: No, I never, I’ve never. I never use this piece of material in. It’s a beautiful piece of material. If I can get the right arrangement on it someday I’ll do it. Probably.

00:37:28:04 - 00:37:42:21 Leonard Feather: I’m the picture. I get ideas. All right. Record number seven. A young lady.

00:37:42:23 - 00:38:03:06 Unknown From heaven. Who? I’m in heaven. And my heart beats so that I can hardly speak. I’m. I seem to find the happiness I see. When we’re out together. Dancing cheek.

00:38:03:06 - 00:38:05:29 Unknown Speaker: To cheek.

00:38:06:02 - 00:38:11:09 Unknown In heaven I’m in heaven.

00:38:11:11 - 00:38:21:03 Unknown Speaker: And the candles that hung around me. Through the window. Seem to vanish. Like a gambler’s lucky streak.

00:38:21:05 - 00:38:30:12 Unknown When we’re out together. Dancing cheek to cheek. Oh, I love to climb a mountain.

00:38:30:15 - 00:38:49:02 Unknown Speaker: And to reach the highest peak. But it doesn’t thrill me half as much as dancing cheek to cheek. Oh, I love to go out fishing in a river or a creek, but I don’t enjoy it. Half as much as dancing cheek to cheek.

00:38:49:05 - 00:38:53:29 Unknown Come on, a dance with me I walk my arm about.

00:38:53:29 - 00:38:56:07 Unknown Speaker: You are the charm.

00:38:56:07 - 00:39:10:18 Unknown About you I will carry me through to heaven I’m in heaven. You and my heart beats. So that I can hardly speak.

00:39:10:21 - 00:39:15:06 Unknown Speaker: And I seem to find the happiness I see.

00:39:15:08 - 00:39:22:01 Unknown When we’re out together. Dancing cheek to cheek. Oh, I.

00:39:22:01 - 00:39:40:06 Unknown Speaker: Love to climb a mountain and to reach the highest peak. But it doesn’t thrill me half as much as dancing cheek to cheek. Oh, I love to go out fishing. And our river or creek, but I don’t enjoy it. Half as much.

00:39:40:06 - 00:39:48:02 Unknown As dancing cheek to cheek. Come on and dance with me. I want my arm about you.

00:39:48:04 - 00:39:50:20 Unknown Speaker: And the charm about you.

00:39:50:23 - 00:40:26:29 Unknown I will carry me through to heaven. I’m in heaven and my heart beat. Says that I cannot be. And I seem to find the happiness I see when we’re out together. Ha ha ha ha. Together. Ha ha ha ha ha! Together. Dancing cheek to cheek.

00:40:29:15 - 00:40:41:16 Joe Williams: The singer is Gloria Lynn, and we’re the big band. Gloria Lynn, there’s much better work. Much better than this.

00:40:41:18 - 00:40:59:12 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I think I agree with you. If it’s because it’s so impossible to even pretend that, you’re wrong about anything. Joey, I have to admit, it’s Gloria Lynn. They’ve been right every time so far. If I were to play you the most obscure singer from the most obscure town in the farthest state in the Union, you’d probably know who it was.

00:40:59:12 - 00:41:06:02 Joe Williams: So you’re being very, very kind. and, when you like this, I get a little weary because.

00:41:06:06 - 00:41:13:20 Leonard Feather: I’m not trying to fool you. And I haven’t succeeded anyway. But, it’s Gloria Lynn, and I agree she can do a lot better. What do you think was wrong? I don’t.

00:41:13:20 - 00:41:21:29 Joe Williams: Know. I don’t know, you don’t know what goes wrong on the record date? I sound, a lot of things that I’ve done to me. I sound out.

00:41:21:29 - 00:41:25:21 Leonard Feather: Of tune in the wrong key or out of her range. Something.

00:41:25:23 - 00:41:38:12 Joe Williams: No, I don’t think it was out of a range. it. I see a singer has a certain timber, and in that timber, they can, perform to their best advantage.

00:41:38:18 - 00:41:39:28 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:41:41:01 - 00:42:06:23 Joe Williams: and they sound better in within that. Within that range. Gloria has a very wide range. And I don’t know whether this, particular arrangement was constructed to, show off her range or or what, but, I didn’t I just didn’t care for it. And, if I ever get to be big enough in the business, I’m going to sense of this kind of thing as far as I’m concerned, in my own work.

00:42:06:24 - 00:42:07:02 Joe Williams: I mean.

00:42:07:02 - 00:42:09:01 Leonard Feather: If you made something like that, that you wouldn’t have it released.

00:42:09:02 - 00:42:12:23 Joe Williams: I wouldn’t want this kind of thing released at all. Yeah. For me.

00:42:12:26 - 00:42:27:28 Leonard Feather: No, I’m inclined to agree. And I think Laura is a wonderful singer. As you probably know, I gave her a rave right up in downbeat not long ago. I said, it’s going to be the next big singer. And I saw her on the Belafonte spec shortly after that, and I was convinced that I was right. But I’m kind of disappointed with this record.

00:42:28:01 - 00:42:37:22 Joe Williams: I am too, I’m really disappointed with this because Gloria has done some wonderful things for posterity for. Is that a new record label, this song? Oh, no.

00:42:37:25 - 00:42:38:18 Leonard Feather: This is Everest.

00:42:38:19 - 00:42:42:00 Joe Williams: This is everything for generations to come to listen to.

00:42:42:00 - 00:42:43:06 Leonard Feather: It’s not a bad name for a label.

00:42:43:06 - 00:42:45:17 Joe Williams: Come to think. Posterity. It’s very good.

00:42:45:18 - 00:42:50:04 Leonard Feather: She’ll listen. Yeah, I can imagine that. I just made a session of a wonderful session for posterity.

00:42:51:04 - 00:42:54:09 Speaker 5 nobody’s going to latch onto that.

00:42:54:12 - 00:43:19:15 Joe Williams: But, Gloria, I imagine stuff is, pretty much as I do. I don’t have as yet, a great deal to say. I’m. I intend to have more to say about the kind of thing that’s, that’s going to be released where I’m concerned. Yeah. And, I think that every singer likes to work toward that point, especially if it’s a conscientious person.

00:43:19:15 - 00:43:20:16 Joe Williams: You know, if they do.

00:43:20:17 - 00:43:23:16 Leonard Feather: Hear, how about the arrangement and the recording here?

00:43:23:27 - 00:43:26:20 Joe Williams: the and once again, the band sounded as though they were in left field.

00:43:26:20 - 00:43:27:03 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:43:27:03 - 00:43:28:05 Joe Williams: And she wasn’t singing.

00:43:28:16 - 00:43:29:10 Leonard Feather: or Ebbets Field.

00:43:29:10 - 00:44:00:06 Joe Williams: Yeah. With the with the band. this is, this becomes quite a problem, it seems, with almost everybody except labels like, Columbia and Capitol. they seem to get this to get this perfect marriage between background and, and foreground and to get the right things in there. They, these companies, work beautifully that way. I think I’ve heard some things in big band things where the band was just up just enough was pulled in just enough, and the singer’s voice was out front just enough.

00:44:00:08 - 00:44:26:29 Joe Williams: And it’s not as though there was a live performance almost, you know, but, and this is a effect I mean, to try and get I think it, record wise, if you can, because I still think that, records play, records are very fun to have in the home and fine to listen to when you want to hear songs, but, a live performance of any artist is, one of the most electrifying experiences that you ever want to have in your life.

00:44:27:05 - 00:44:53:08 Joe Williams: George Harrison and, and I, we were talking about this, we were saying, what a pity so many people would never hear, Billie Holiday with a Bobby Tucker. Yeah, or wouldn’t hear Ella Fitzgerald with a Hank Jones. Or, sometimes with Dabney, you know, and Alice Lark and, accompanying, certain singers and, Gerald Wiggins, I heard Gerald Wiggins one night with, Ernestine Anderson.

00:44:53:22 - 00:44:59:25 Joe Williams: And to me, this was one of the most beautiful experiences I ever had in my life, listening wise.

00:44:59:28 - 00:45:04:23 Leonard Feather: And more vocal performances should be recorded on the job. That’s what it boils down to.

00:45:04:23 - 00:45:07:14 Joe Williams: That’s right Sarah Vaughan with Jimmy Jones.

00:45:07:16 - 00:45:12:13 Leonard Feather: Oh well Sarah made some good things on the job. She recorded Mr. Kelly’s in Chicago on 1 or 2 others I think.

00:45:12:14 - 00:45:32:14 Joe Williams: Yes. Well these were, these were after Jimmy left her and I have. Yeah that’s right I haven’t I’ve been pretty busy since during that time in fact that they were making this record, I think we were at the Regal Theater and as you know, when you play a theater, you’re in there all day long, and I wasn’t I didn’t get a chance to do much, listening to this kind of thing, but I’d love to.

00:45:32:14 - 00:45:51:00 Joe Williams: I haven’t even had a chance to catch up on. One of the things I think is there is greatest, this thing that she did, Hal Mooney arranged for her, from Porgy and Bess. My man’s gone. Yeah. I think that this album is probably one of her best efforts. And, I haven’t had a chance to sit down and listen to this.

00:45:51:03 - 00:45:52:14 Joe Williams: Like, I would like to.

00:45:52:21 - 00:45:57:10 Leonard Feather: there’s too much going on and too many records coming out anyway. Well, keep up with everything.

00:45:57:10 - 00:46:18:07 Joe Williams: Well, I just stopped traveling with the Basie band now, and I’m starting my own act. this is like I’m in the, the first month. I’m starting my own act after I get squared away and I can take a little time off to sit down and lay or lay around, lay down in the middle of my floor and listen to Mr. Hill and, hear some things and, pick up some records and things that I want to hear.

00:46:18:17 - 00:46:32:08 Joe Williams: I’m going to catch up on a lot of things. Ray Charles I’m going to catch up on him. I’m going to catch up on the, Sarah, I’m going to catch up on Ernestine Anderson and Wes Montgomery and all these things in the back of my mind to do, God willing.

00:46:32:08 - 00:46:34:10 Leonard Feather: Yeah, so many wonderful things are happening.

00:46:34:17 - 00:46:35:14 Joe Williams: Oh, yes.

00:46:35:16 - 00:46:41:20 Leonard Feather: Did we get around to discussing? Well, the arranger, incidentally, on this was an old Basie associate of yours, too.

00:46:41:22 - 00:46:42:11 Joe Williams: Ernie Wilkins.

00:46:42:11 - 00:46:43:26 Leonard Feather: Yeah, it’s the only Wilkins you got.

00:46:44:02 - 00:47:04:22 Joe Williams: Kicking and jumping. I had, we just did an album with him, Leonard, which I am very happy with. I only heard the flat dubs, the things that hadn’t been edited yet. with, Harry Sweets Edison, his orchestra and his quintet. And we only added one instrument. Barry Gilbert on guitar, which is quite an addition indeed this year.

00:47:04:23 - 00:47:15:05 Joe Williams: And, Ernie’s charts are still the greatest for a small combo or big band. I must also get Ernie’s, album. what is it? Here comes Mr. Wilkins.

00:47:15:12 - 00:47:20:06 Leonard Feather: Yeah, it’s I might not. This has two albums on the same label as this is. Matter of fact, Everest.

00:47:20:09 - 00:47:21:11 Joe Williams: I must hear these two.

00:47:21:17 - 00:47:25:14 Leonard Feather: Let’s, let’s write Gloria on posterity records. Now, let’s go ahead.

00:47:25:14 - 00:47:29:08 Joe Williams: Gloria Lynn.

00:47:29:10 - 00:47:34:00 Leonard Feather: Two bells for this particular performance by Gloria Lynn. But she’s more than a two about the former.

00:47:34:02 - 00:47:39:12 Joe Williams: I think she’s I think that she’s, there are times when she’s a panic button performer.

00:47:39:14 - 00:47:43:04 Leonard Feather: That’s true. All right, here we go with the next one.

00:47:43:07 - 00:47:52:02 Unknown If course is back in any club, let’s see what they.

00:47:52:05 - 00:48:00:21 Unknown This day, week moving month, 11 months leading up and coming back there.

00:48:00:28 - 00:48:25:13 Speaker 6 A little middle class. Me with my family that I, me back there in the middle when you go to satisfy myself a quiet spot, a cozy singing I’m thinking now a submarine. Oh, 100 boys leave me the sea and they all me take the boat with me.

00:48:25:13 - 00:48:33:04 Unknown They throw me, smack them a little. Fly me left them a little flakes.

00:48:33:04 - 00:48:54:00 Speaker 6 They smack dab in the middle I love it, rock. You know to satisfy my soul I’m about the mix I’m gonna sing at the request of Rudolph. They a beauty forgets a blues I’m back. What can I sing to have a little rock? Rudolph.

00:48:54:00 - 00:49:00:02 Unknown That’s what it says. In the dark of my heart. In the.

00:49:00:04 - 00:49:01:26 Speaker 6 Seaside. You must.

00:49:02:00 - 00:49:08:10 Unknown Love. What on the surface I’m in love I said give.

00:49:08:10 - 00:49:16:17 Speaker 6 Me a stay. An extra bounce. This kind of time I’m doing now a swing by you.

00:49:16:19 - 00:49:31:26 Unknown This is what I’m doing. And all this is wonderful. Was meant for this little mouth and a little play back. My little and.

00:49:32:03 - 00:49:37:07 Speaker 6 My rock and my love. So I said rock and roll.

00:49:37:09 - 00:49:46:20 Unknown You said it. Said.

00:49:46:22 - 00:50:03:02 Leonard Feather: Well, only this is. I only played that because this song was one of your big hits with Basie, and, I wanted to confuse it. Well, maybe I finally got you to the point where you’re not quite sure who it is. You were talking about in person performances, as you noticed, this was.

00:50:03:04 - 00:50:20:00 Joe Williams: Yes, this was a in person performance. Only one person. No go. comes to. Well, a number of people came to mind while the record was playing. and oddly enough, I think almost all of them worked with Stan Kenton at one time or another. And,

00:50:20:03 - 00:50:20:27 Leonard Feather: No.

00:50:21:00 - 00:50:29:14 Joe Williams: And this one, this this this might be, an Ann Richards. I don’t know, I have no idea who it is, but.

00:50:29:23 - 00:50:42:16 Leonard Feather: contrary to our usual custom, George Stanley, I have not been telling the audiences, the audience in most instances tonight, what the records are, because the singers, in most cases, don’t give us a chance to get a word in edgewise. So I’ve been leaving them in the dark along with you.

00:50:42:21 - 00:50:43:03 Joe Williams: Oh, my.

00:50:43:03 - 00:50:59:07 Leonard Feather: God, the audience doesn’t know. At this point, at least, I imagine most of our listeners who are not familiar with the singer will not be aware who this was. It’s not a former Kenton vocalist that it isn’t. Hell, you know, let’s get to the main issue, which is how good or bad or indifferent was it?

00:50:59:25 - 00:51:29:14 Joe Williams: this record, had a little spontaneous, feel to it and, they were, there was a little thought put into it because the lyrics were changed, and, It was a, thing that the where the crowd was participating, what have you it, it had a pretty good feel to it. the thing it was seemed a little fast to me because I like it a little bit slower than that, even for a live performance.

00:51:29:14 - 00:51:57:05 Joe Williams: But when you’re on stage, a lot of things, a lot of tempos will pick up on you. Yeah. I didn’t get it. I was so busy listening, trying to, hear the inflections and the sound of the voice and and guess who it was until I didn’t really hear the record as such. Yeah, I was busy listening, listening to the singer and trying to decide whether it was it, a needle day, trying to, you know, saying that I would like I’d want to sing at the met and which brought a big laugh from the group.

00:51:57:05 - 00:52:16:23 Joe Williams: Yeah. From the people who were listening. And, Rudolf Bing, you know, and the picture of her singing for Rudolph being at the met would really be something. Anita O’Day. That is when she was in mind at that time. Then, a few sustained things brought Ann Richards to mind. but, I didn’t know exactly who this was at all.

00:52:16:23 - 00:52:18:06 Joe Williams: You really had me fooled.

00:52:18:08 - 00:52:21:24 Leonard Feather: Good. Have me. All right, you give us the writing and we’ll give you the answer.

00:52:22:12 - 00:52:27:06 Joe Williams: rating for this record. I’ll give it. I’ll give it, to Bell.

00:52:27:08 - 00:52:45:22 Leonard Feather: You’re very generous. I think what was the first record we played tonight that you gave it? Bells. We have the list there. Let’s have a look. I have a feeling you have two bells or something else that, Thank you. yeah. Sammy Davis, you gave two bells. You really think this right along with a Sammy Davis record?

00:52:45:25 - 00:52:46:24 Unknown Speaker: I did.

00:52:46:24 - 00:52:57:11 Joe Williams: I didn’t like the Sammy Davis record, and I, I told you, I love Sammy, but, Sammy, I told you I like the things. It, Yeah, I name some of the things that I like. Sam. Sammy. Like,

00:52:57:17 - 00:53:00:10 Speaker 5 Well, I know that, the grass and stuff like that.

00:53:00:15 - 00:53:17:03 Leonard Feather: Still, if I had a choice between Sammy singing smack dab in the middle of this young lady, there wouldn’t be much doubt in my mind which I’d take. However, this is all in my opinion, as I constantly have to remind myself every week it’s not my business to put words in anybody’s mouth. I would have given it about a half a bell.

00:53:17:04 - 00:53:19:03 Leonard Feather: It’s Connie Francis.

00:53:19:06 - 00:53:21:17 Joe Williams: Connie Francis, that was Connie Francis.

00:53:21:17 - 00:53:33:16 Leonard Feather: Singing at the Copacabana, and I never heard any song less suited to an artist or any artist less suited to a piece of material. Well, come on, Joe, be honest. Do you really disagree with that?

00:53:33:18 - 00:53:37:19 Joe Williams: Well, I’m not familiar with Connie Francis or her work.

00:53:37:21 - 00:53:39:19 Leonard Feather: No, but you heard what she sounds like here.

00:53:39:22 - 00:54:04:16 Joe Williams: Yes, I did, and, she has this knack of sounding like the other people. Yeah. You know, from time to time, there are many other singers to compare with, from things that I hear of hers, that I hear, abjectly, I guess I must say, because I don’t listen to her as a singer. Connie Francis is a very popular artist with a lot of people, as are many popular artists.

00:54:04:18 - 00:54:08:19 Joe Williams: But I don’t listen to her as I say, I listen to an Ella Fitzgerald.

00:54:08:19 - 00:54:09:21 Leonard Feather: Or, yeah, I understand it.

00:54:09:22 - 00:54:13:22 Joe Williams: Or I do to, many other artists. The favorites of mine.

00:54:13:25 - 00:54:36:15 Leonard Feather: I’m not going to guide you in any direction or continue the conversation, because I would like to get another record. And Joe and I, I think we just about have time for one more fast one. And this is of some special blues interests. We’re going back to the blues again for our last track, Here We Go.

00:54:36:17 - 00:55:04:10 Unknown Speaker: You may take my one. Sure can’t keep a long. You may take my one. But you, Joe, can’t keep a long I got a new in love loving California. Thank you. Don’t forget that I. I’m a deep sea diver. I got a stroke and I can’t go wrong. I’m a deep sea dog. Got a stroke and I can’t go wrong.

00:55:04:13 - 00:55:33:24 Unknown Speaker: I can dive through the bottom. My wing. Hold out so long. You gotta sit back. You walk on, you dig it. Not right where you go. Hey, hey long. All the long. Oh, no no no no, the Lord. Watch it now watch me now I got my hook in the wall. You know I’m a corpse on top. I got my hook in the wall.

00:55:33:27 - 00:55:44:29 Unknown Speaker: Yes, my corks on top. Tiny world, kind of loose. Lord, with the stuff I got broke on. Don’t hit me. I live right on the.

00:55:45:01 - 00:55:48:12 Unknown I don’t find the right.

00:55:48:14 - 00:56:27:10 Unknown Speaker: You got all you women down. I don’t find out why you got all the women in town. You know, I’m a slow motion, but you don’t mind saying that. I got a long story. Got a big, big of me. I got little mama gonna beat that woman. I tell you, miss, the woman below. Table.

00:56:27:13 - 00:56:33:23 Unknown Speaker: In the.

00:56:33:25 - 00:56:57:13 Unknown Speaker: Old. Slide. You know what I’m gonna say about this? Talk to me. I got me three women that live on the same old road. I know you, I got me three women that live on the same road. Yeah, one does my washing one morning when I love face my Room and both as a girl, I got the women I love.

00:56:57:13 - 00:57:28:08 Unknown Speaker: And I can’t tell them apart. Love all these women, I think. Tell them for. One. My loved ones, my miracle. And the other one is my. One God for Jenny, one from Georgia. One I love from Caroline. Walk on from my walk up again. You want to jump on to love it from down. Love. I got women from coast to coast and they always.

00:57:28:11 - 00:57:38:18 Leonard Feather: Joe, I’m so sorry we didn’t have time to finish that one, but it’s a very long track and we have very little time left. Unfortunately, about a minute and a half in which you can synthesize your feelings about what this represents.

00:57:38:21 - 00:57:48:22 Joe Williams: Well, I think that this is a real fine record. it’s, the truth was, I know it was from the fellas who do this kind of thing. they’ve been doing it for many, many years and do it better than anybody else.

00:57:48:22 - 00:57:50:26 Leonard Feather: I know you know where it comes from. Probably.

00:57:51:12 - 00:57:56:18 Joe Williams: I imagine from Chicago, around 35th Street. 31st Street, where the fellas are still doing this kind of thing.

00:57:56:20 - 00:58:01:26 Leonard Feather: Yeah, well, I figured you’d recognize the style, if not the individuals. Oh, yes. Let’s have the writing on that.

00:58:02:13 - 00:58:06:17 Joe Williams: for this one, we’ll have to give it four bells.

00:58:06:19 - 00:58:13:17 Leonard Feather: Very good. Four bells for Sonny Terry, brownie McGhee, Lightnin Hopkins. And the fourth member is your namesake, Joe Williams.

00:58:13:18 - 00:58:22:16 Joe Williams: Oh, yes, I remember Joe Williams. He was been recording for many, many years. oh, he’s been recording since at least 1935, 36, 37, I think.

00:58:22:18 - 00:58:24:06 Leonard Feather: Since you started on the scene, I guess.

00:58:24:06 - 00:58:33:19 Joe Williams: Oh, yes, I was I just came out of high school and, and, wasn’t doing anything, big. I was singing with Jimmy Newman’s orchestra on the air there for about ten bucks a week.

00:58:33:22 - 00:58:38:01 Leonard Feather: Oh. About that. Well, it’s nice we managed to close with a member of the Joe Williams clan.

00:58:38:06 - 00:58:38:26 Joe Williams: Wonderful.

00:58:38:26 - 00:58:48:12 Leonard Feather: Real wonderful. Joe. It’s so pleasant having a hero as the most articulate of blindfolds. And I just want to wish you continued success with your solo career. Many, many thanks for being our guest.

00:58:48:12 - 00:58:53:16 Joe Williams: It’s always a pleasure to be with you, Leonard.

00:58:53:18 - 00:59:01:10 Leonard Feather: And tune in again.

00:59:01:13 - 00:59:08:05 Leonard Feather: Same time next week. You.

00:59:08:08 - 00:59:13:06 Leonard Feather: And.

00:59:13:08 - 00:59:19:01 Leonard Feather: For Leonard Feather.

00:59:19:03 - 00:59:44:01 Leonard Feather: And the blindfold test.