Les McCann Blindfold Test–Stan Kenton Interview–A Blindfold Test [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:07:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But.

00:00:07:23 - 00:00:10:14 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: A blindfold.

00:00:10:14 - 00:00:15:16 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Test.

00:00:15:18 - 00:00:22:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: With Leonard Feather.

00:00:22:08 - 00:00:27:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And.

00:00:27:04 - 00:00:32:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Today’s guest.

00:00:33:00 - 00:00:41:29 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Lets McCann.

00:00:42:01 - 00:00:46:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Think.

00:00:46:10 - 00:01:11:19 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Once again. Greetings and modulations. It’s our pleasure to bring to you today another in a series of interviews designed not only for Kenobi, but for future use in Downbeat magazine. Today, our guest is a gentleman who has caused quite a little controversy in the music world in the last year, with a style of jazz that might be described as new, or possibly is very old, or possibly a combination of the two, whichever it is.

00:01:11:19 - 00:01:35:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Everybody’s talking about him, and I’m very proud to introduce les McCann. Thank you. Leonard. I hear today a pretty good lesson. I’m ready to take off with a first record. I think you probably know the system we’ve established here. Yes, that is one bell for poor, two bells for fair, three for good, four for very good. And if it’s even better than that, you can just push the panic button to indicate that all bells are wrong.

00:01:35:29 - 00:02:02:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: All right. So we’ll go ahead with record number one. All right.

00:02:02:11 - 00:02:27:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Let’s.

00:02:27:28 - 00:02:28:19 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Let’s begin.

00:02:28:19 - 00:02:30:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Can’t hear me. But this is.

00:02:30:24 - 00:03:57:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The R Pepper quintet. This kind of controlling on trumpet playing. The loneliest Monk’s composition rhythm and.

00:03:57:09 - 00:04:09:21 Unknown Speaker: The.

00:04:09:23 - 00:04:20:05 Unknown Speaker: Circumstances.

00:04:20:08 - 00:04:39:02 Unknown Speaker: In.

00:04:39:05 - 00:05:28:04 Unknown Speaker: No.

00:05:28:07 - 00:07:08:07 Unknown Speaker: Other.

00:07:08:09 - 00:07:52:00 Unknown Speaker: I know the.

00:07:52:03 - 00:07:58:01 Unknown Speaker: Best.

00:07:58:03 - 00:08:17:04 Unknown Speaker: And.

00:08:17:06 - 00:08:28:13 Unknown Speaker: The best.

00:08:28:15 - 00:08:35:18 Unknown Speaker: The best.

00:08:35:20 - 00:08:59:15 Unknown Speaker: For this.

00:08:59:18 - 00:09:01:09 Unknown Speaker: Well,

00:09:01:12 - 00:09:23:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That was, kind of a high tension record in a sense. kind of makes me kind of nervous in spots. but, I think it was kind of condolence up and probably, Art Pepper on Alto, but, the part I liked was the, when the piano player started playing. I think that was the best part.

00:09:23:26 - 00:09:47:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: it could have been, red hot, but Garland, I don’t know if that’s, it was kind of, I couldn’t hardly recognize what it was, but they had a very good feeling. They’re kind of that same, feeling that the, rhythm section used to get used to get me out of what conditions?

00:09:47:21 - 00:10:07:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: When they. When they were the rhythm section. They’re not together anymore. Which rhythm section do you mean? I’m in Philly, Joe, and, Paul James. Yeah. I thought that was what you meant. I just wanted to clarify for the listeners. So, I give the whole I didn’t like the, tune. I know you know the tune.

00:10:07:14 - 00:10:23:17 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I’ve heard it before. but, well, let’s, let’s hear writing musically and okay, for, for the band. I give it, And for the, rhythm section.

00:10:23:19 - 00:10:43:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: All right, three bells for, Wynton Kelly, Paul Chambers and Jimmy Cobb. That’s who was the rhythm section. You. Right? You were correct. 100% on the front line. It was Pepper’s date. And, of course, on trumpet. And the tune is an old Thelonious Monk riff called Rhythm Running. Yeah, I’ve heard that before. It’s one of his sillier compositions.

00:10:43:00 - 00:11:28:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I would say, less less vital. more trivial. It makes me jump on. All right, let’s jump away from it and move into record number two. All right.

00:11:28:11 - 00:11:30:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Let’s see how. Let’s makes up for. This is a.

00:11:30:20 - 00:11:39:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: New pianist by the name of Work Jenkins and the Oro Box label, and the first release of his label. And he’s playing.

00:11:39:04 - 00:11:39:27 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Milt Jackson’s.

00:11:39:27 - 00:13:35:19 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Composition Blues ology.

00:15:17:05 - 00:15:38:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The tune was, blues izing. I think I heard bags of somebody playing that sometime ago. That’s right. In fact, bags wrote it. That much I can, Well, if it’s who I think it is, I really want to. I don’t think I should, completely go on my, what I feel about it because, this person is a very good friend of mine, and,

00:15:38:28 - 00:16:00:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Oh, yeah. is is a Marvin Jenkins, I think. And I didn’t even know he had a record out, and, I, I hated the way the whole record was recorded. The sound was horrible. the, Marvin is, one of the few people I know who sets a good feeling when he plays and makes everybody happy.

00:16:00:11 - 00:16:17:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I mean, this is what I like in music, and, he, he plays all the instruments and, a few other things, and, gets just as well as good a feeling. What intrigues me is if, let’s assume it is Marvin Jenkins and I’m not telling you yet whether it is or not. Yes. What led you to believe it?

00:16:17:25 - 00:16:43:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: So immediately? I know his playing. I mean, as you think, distinctive a style. Yes. I think so, yes. The chordal approach. Yes. That more than any other thing. But, he has a way of playing that, I can recognize if his him if it’s somebody else. They sound exactly like him. And, Well, for Marvin, I give it this.

00:16:43:23 - 00:17:01:27 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Four bells and it is Marvin Jenkins. It is very sharp work on your part because since he hasn’t made any records before as far as I know. oh I don’t know, I don’t know. He made one record that he doesn’t play like this on. It’s, this good little man, which is a very nice, as is a single that’s out.

00:17:01:27 - 00:17:21:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: He was Barney Kessel. Oh, that’s right, he toured with Barney Castle’s group. Didn’t. He’s doubling on various things. And, then. Yeah, Barney told me about him. As a matter of fact, just around the same time that, Gil Fuller brought me this recording. And this is on Gil Fuller’s label. Oh, yeah. New company, Ultravox Records. Well, that’s, they all do something about a recording.

00:17:21:16 - 00:17:41:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, maybe so, but that’s an interesting playing in there. I’ll say it is. Marvin is, very interesting and, funniest guy we met in my life. Is that right? I’ve got him. He keeps you laughing all the time. Would you say he belongs in the in the so-called groove funk soul society? I think he belongs in the groove.

00:17:41:04 - 00:18:10:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Happiness society. Good enough. Yeah. I don’t know what to draw you into a debate, necessarily on the subject of this whole thing, except that you’re so inextricably associated with it that it would be almost illogical not to bring it up at one point along. That’s right. I understand, how do you feel in the first place about the, identification that you’ve had with to this particular school of music, the, you know, the neo gospel style, which, of course, has been prevalent on quite a number of performances, although not not all of it by any means.

00:18:10:01 - 00:18:28:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, I don’t I don’t mind it, but I just don’t want to feel that, like, this is the only. And, way we play as far as people listening to us think that this is our only, means of communication because we play other types of music, too. And I think that this is not only as me, I.

00:18:28:27 - 00:18:50:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: This goes for a lot of musicians. They play other things other than, one. I mean, maybe not as far as. Well, let me say this. oh, not too many groups have, have been put in a position like we have whatever. So from speaking from us, I think we should be heard from all sides. that certainly is happening with Horace Silver.

00:18:50:00 - 00:19:07:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And he was the first, I would say in the East to be associated with, with the funk idea. And matter of fact, you know how it all started. Allegedly, Horace did an arrangement. show me the way to go home on those changes. which became the preacher. Preacher? Yes. Was he? All my life, I’ve heard this kind of music.

00:19:08:00 - 00:19:25:06 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Oh, sure. So what are you going to do? I know it isn’t. No, that’s what I said when I introduced you before, but, the fact is that it’s used in this particular context in modern jazz is new. Well, the reason I want to use it is because from the feeling that I’ve heard it throughout the churches and, just groups around the streets, there was singing.

00:19:25:07 - 00:19:53:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: It was just such a good feeling to me that you could get this over to the people, man, you got something going. You know, I know I understand your feeling. I think it’s a very justified, justifiable objective and, it’s a funny thing that there has been such a violent reaction for or against it. Well, I think a lot of, reaction against me is, from, if there, you know, I’ve heard some musicians talk against this fact that I’m so young and,

00:19:53:27 - 00:20:13:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. And they accuse you of being synthetic, but. Yeah. And, we’ve come out, you know, and fairly successful and, out here, I know there’s a feeling of jealousy going on, you know, but that’s all right. You know, I think that, as long as we just keep trying to be honest and, Right, you’ll make us straight with love and everybody.

00:20:13:20 - 00:20:23:17 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: We’re going to get our point across. I’m hip. Let’s try record number three. I’m with you.

00:20:23:20 - 00:20:42:25 Unknown Speaker: good boy. I love, love, love. Me me me me. Oh, no. I’m.

00:20:42:27 - 00:20:53:17 Unknown Speaker: Back. I’ve been.

00:20:53:19 - 00:21:09:03 Unknown Speaker: Under cover for five.

00:21:09:06 - 00:21:23:04 Unknown Speaker: For my love of.

00:21:23:07 - 00:21:29:05 Unknown Speaker: let me.

00:21:29:07 - 00:21:44:03 Unknown Speaker: Pop up. And I’m.

00:21:44:05 - 00:21:49:14 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That’s why would be a surprise to its name.

00:21:49:14 - 00:22:07:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Roland Kirk is playing an instrument known as the Manzella. love is here to stay.

00:22:07:23 - 00:22:15:12 Unknown Speaker: I.

00:22:15:15 - 00:22:29:10 Unknown Speaker: Love it.

00:22:29:12 - 00:22:46:00 Unknown Speaker: Even under it. And, I mean, everything is on my.

00:22:46:03 - 00:22:53:06 Unknown Speaker: Mind this. And the,

00:22:53:08 - 00:23:04:07 Unknown Speaker: The.

00:23:04:10 - 00:23:09:13 Unknown Speaker: Number one.

00:23:09:15 - 00:23:24:00 Unknown Speaker: So the. Most.

00:23:24:03 - 00:23:35:25 Unknown Speaker: The best.

00:23:35:27 - 00:23:45:01 Unknown Speaker: Man, I never.

00:23:45:04 - 00:24:03:17 Unknown Speaker: Found. But obviously many, many, many others. The.

00:24:03:19 - 00:24:10:07 Unknown Speaker: Room.

00:24:10:10 - 00:24:15:13 Unknown Speaker: Many of.

00:24:15:15 - 00:24:22:20 Unknown Speaker: Us.

00:24:27:11 - 00:24:39:20 Unknown Speaker: Me.

00:24:39:22 - 00:24:45:24 Unknown Speaker: For minute.

00:24:55:07 - 00:25:07:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Some,

00:25:07:27 - 00:25:11:08 Unknown Speaker: Trying to get me.

00:25:11:10 - 00:25:14:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The instrument sounded like a soprano saxophone.

00:25:14:27 - 00:25:16:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Come up with those time.

00:25:16:03 - 00:25:17:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But,

00:25:17:24 - 00:25:18:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You can’t do it.

00:25:18:23 - 00:25:20:18 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I don’t know if it was Steve Lacy.

00:25:20:20 - 00:25:23:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I try to sometimes guess,

00:25:23:17 - 00:25:46:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I read about. I think he plays about 3 or 4 instruments or something like that. I’m not sure, but, he, projected a lot of feeling down. At first, the rhythm section weren’t quite together. Done. but, regardless, despite that, he was saying what he had to say right along. what do you think of this?

00:25:46:18 - 00:26:06:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: well. I think, through him, maybe I could learn to like it because, he seemed to have, a lot of control. It was, places. But this is a very hard instrument to play. Especially trying to keep it in tone. I don’t know if it was a soprano or not, but, Yeah, I like to.

00:26:06:27 - 00:26:22:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: His body. Well, let’s, hear the writing, then. I’ll tell you all about it. Well, all right. And if it wasn’t a soprano sax as an oboe, it sure sounded as much like a noble as. It’s not like a soprano. Say that. Well, say,

00:26:22:25 - 00:26:25:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: This man.

00:26:25:22 - 00:26:53:14 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Two bells. Yes. And that’s for the soloist. This is a fellow named Roland Kirk. And your guest. The second guest was right. That’s the fellow who plays up to three instruments simultaneously. Yeah, it’s a weird thing. This instrument that he played, lovers Hit us down is called a manzullo. And it’s sort of in the soprano sax family with trumpet and oboe overtones, I would say he also plays something called a stretch strike, which is supposed to be like a straight alto saxophone.

00:26:53:14 - 00:27:16:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And if you can imagine that and he plays these both at once. And another saxophone. Yeah, all out of the same mouth. How it does it with only two hands out of a finger out. And he is blind and, he is a Chicago musician, and this is his first album on the Argo label, and I suspect we’ll hear a lot more of him, not because he’s a stunt artist that plays three horns at once, because, as you said, what he does, he does with some projection and feeling.

00:27:16:28 - 00:27:36:16 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, well, see, it’s nowadays it’s so hard for a person to come up like this. So you say he plays three at once, you know, and right away he’s going to be tagged as a, somebody with, you know, kind of a fad, you know, that, oh. You know, they just tag in with a gimmick. I mean, you know, a lot of terms should be thrown out.

00:27:36:18 - 00:27:54:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: There are some tracks on this album where he does play, more than one instrument at once. But on this particular tune, I that I chose to play you, he only plays the one, of course. And I think obviously there’s no gimmick attached to this except that it’s an unusual instrument, you know, more. yeah. He he I really liked what he did.

00:27:54:00 - 00:28:13:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And I think I should add one more bell to. All right, go right ahead. Thank you. The three bells for Roland Kirk. And that has nothing to do with your having had the identification given to you after the raid. Oh, no. No, no. All right. Thank you. We’re talking to les McCann, and we’ll be back with you right after this word from our producer.

00:28:13:04 - 00:28:18:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Thing will be a reality. Nothing. not right now. Not for Pacino.

00:28:18:12 - 00:28:21:13 Unknown Speaker: Is it, too?

00:28:21:16 - 00:28:25:19 Unknown Speaker: Much of a beating for.

00:28:25:21 - 00:28:47:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You before the first one is officially over 51. Will be really. You know, and I thought I had the program pretty well balanced with license to, you know, there was a lot of that music. It was. We were pretentious about it was was a really great music. But I was afraid for music for those people, for those things you would call absolutely music.

00:28:47:26 - 00:29:13:03 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: When I got a chance. And so we a lot of them, we got to put down a great deal. A lot of the critics would discovered, you know, some of the music and the things, lot of those things, many of them. And that’s sort of, you know, know there’s nobody can stand, unless a guy is, a person is a real connoisseur of music.

00:29:13:05 - 00:29:33:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: you cannot stand to sit through a concert. Two hours of music of heavy know was the least of all the kind of the fans that you attract who are probably spending themselves to listen to anything beyond go downstairs, you know, and, people to death on that orchestra, a lot of them, the City of Glass people and gotten on that thing.

00:29:34:00 - 00:30:00:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, yeah, I play that to people that, don’t know. I mean, on the blind basis, you know, I’m going from bewildering reaction. Yeah. They don’t, can’t figure. So there’s an awful lot of music in great jazz things. You know, the first of all, there’s no tonality whatsoever, a complete loss of tonality. And, the blues just shut out, which takes a lot of time and, a lot of listening.

00:30:00:15 - 00:30:17:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Sometime back, we got to talking about. I wonder if what, musical sounded like in 500 years. did you get excited thinking about what it’s going to be like? You know, if you go to a concert, you’ll just, you’ll sit in your seat of orchestra for perform, and you will not hear any one melody. You just.

00:30:17:00 - 00:30:35:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Whoo! Sheets of musical sound that will go passing by. You know, you’ll be all shapes and everything, you know, because of all these tremendous, complex, contrapuntal things that will be going on. You know, just you think you feel the sensation will be like smelling perfume. So there’s this sort of aroma in that one. Enough to be an exciting thing.

00:30:36:05 - 00:30:58:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That was a very, sort of fairy intelligent appraisal of City of Boston by the classical reviewer in Downbeat. Do you think so? I don’t remember what he said. That was a favorable. Well, I mean, he reviewed it as if he would be reviewing a regular classical work, you know, you know, where the City of Glass is appreciated is in Europe really much more than over here.

00:30:58:20 - 00:31:17:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: We didn’t perform at that. Oh, no, no, we didn’t. You don’t really see the difference between those people and us Americans over here is they’re more used to, these distances and. Oh, yes, there’s, you know, and the more ready to accept you on the concert level, too. Well, that part of it, too, is in our favor.

00:31:17:13 - 00:31:33:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: They don’t look at jazz. We look at over here. You know, jazz music over here is a thing that goes underneath having a honky tonk, you know, that reflects the life of the honky tonk. Yeah, that’s right over there. They don’t look at it like that. Jazz is a thing that stands by itself, you know? And, it’s serious music to the people of the North.

00:31:33:24 - 00:31:51:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That’s probably the biggest impression you’ve got on the whole tour. South in the fact of your own. Yeah. run from its inception, is the fact that people, paid such intelligent attention to what you were doing, even though we played this some off big crowds of people, and you got to talk to them. That could be a pin drop in the gutter.

00:31:51:24 - 00:32:16:10 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Maybe some guy would grunt or something or make a yell, and the whole audience would go, yeah, man, that happened to of, Yeah, that was a wonderful experience. The greatest problem those we I have is that we America will start to become bogged down with tradition. So it was like we’re getting now to where we’re so much about this country’s tradition.

00:32:16:13 - 00:32:37:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And tradition does one thing that it stops progress and on to a real poisonous thing. Not that you have to not respect tradition, but you’ve got to learn where to be lenient with tradition and convention, you know? Yeah, it’s not a new battle it’s been going on. But I think America is going to be having trouble in another generation or two.

00:32:37:27 - 00:32:52:01 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Was having trouble. Right now we’re at a very reactionary stage of our political and social life and everything else, and that, the artistic development has got to be we got with that.

00:32:52:03 - 00:33:02:01 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: We got enough for America that.

00:33:02:03 - 00:33:07:18 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I am I don’t know that much. I think you’re right. I mean, it sounds.

00:33:07:18 - 00:33:09:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Like,

00:33:09:17 - 00:33:11:08 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: A show of American sound.

00:33:11:08 - 00:33:12:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Like Benny Goodman.

00:33:12:02 - 00:33:17:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Inspires them.

00:33:17:25 - 00:33:22:12 Unknown Speaker: you know.

00:33:22:14 - 00:33:27:10 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: There was Billy May was not.

00:33:27:12 - 00:33:28:27 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, wrong.

00:33:28:29 - 00:33:37:27 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: But I don’t, because it could be. It could be a copy of Billy Week. When I think of this man, it was probably was Billy the.

00:33:37:29 - 00:33:38:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I have we’re.

00:33:38:22 - 00:33:39:21 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Not up on the copies.

00:33:39:21 - 00:33:48:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: A good forceful rhythm and forceful play. I don’t like the gimmick of a sliding saxophone. Yogurt. Very flat tone.

00:33:48:06 - 00:33:51:08 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:33:51:10 - 00:33:53:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And I’d say it’s pretty dark.

00:33:53:14 - 00:33:55:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: How about you, Bill?

00:33:55:05 - 00:34:14:19 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I say three, and, I don’t like to separate, as he’s done so much. just from a commercial thing. This is obviously a commercial thing, but well done. So everything is well done. Well, it’s okay with me. I don’t find it objectionable at all, even though there’s obviously a commercial thing. But that.

00:34:14:19 - 00:34:16:10 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Little red. Yeah.

00:34:16:13 - 00:34:23:16 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: The thing is constructed on. But what it is, it’s very well done. I think we were born three, I think.

00:34:23:22 - 00:34:31:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Oh, yes, I am. I guess I.

00:34:31:27 - 00:34:40:02 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Am. Yeah, I think I liked that and it was a trombone.

00:34:40:04 - 00:34:46:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I like the feeling of the rhythm, but I miss the sense of shape of the whole.

00:34:46:08 - 00:34:51:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:34:51:24 - 00:34:55:03 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I’m not. I’m a.

00:34:55:06 - 00:34:56:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Number.

00:34:56:02 - 00:34:59:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I think I like one, about to come down. Was it?

00:34:59:00 - 00:35:00:10 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That was it.

00:35:00:12 - 00:35:08:13 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: He was another miss. Every other note school he played. That was. And it sounded good. He had a good sound and that, that’s it.

00:35:08:15 - 00:35:15:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: A lot about the arrangement. okay. Like the sense of shape. Well.

00:35:15:11 - 00:35:32:19 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I like the first part with the saxophones before the trombone, but from the time the trombone stuff, the thing finished, as far as I was concerned. Yeah, you. I don’t know who it was or even care that the guy played, like, dizzy, but a little cleaner than dizzy, so maybe. And without the fire. Dizzy. So maybe it was.

00:35:32:19 - 00:35:33:29 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Maybe it wasn’t dizzy.

00:35:34:01 - 00:35:36:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Right? That’s my criticism of the arrangement.

00:35:36:05 - 00:35:42:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. well, what would you rather.

00:35:42:15 - 00:35:45:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Overall to.

00:35:45:25 - 00:35:46:16 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Hear the.

00:35:46:19 - 00:35:49:03 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, I don’t I agree.

00:35:49:05 - 00:35:58:09 Unknown Speaker: With I,

00:35:58:11 - 00:36:00:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I recognize the.

00:36:00:06 - 00:36:03:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Right in a Jimmy, but it sounds like two.

00:36:03:11 - 00:36:13:19 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Me I agree with you on the Ragland to.

00:36:13:22 - 00:36:20:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: See the the Duke or very popular,

00:36:20:16 - 00:36:25:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, I’ll tell you first.

00:36:26:00 - 00:36:33:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, I got pleasure from the play.

00:36:33:25 - 00:36:40:17 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I liked it because it’s humorous. Yeah. Too serious. How serious can you get about this? Things, really? You know how it that with.

00:36:40:23 - 00:36:47:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That it would be the Duke, but somehow something doesn’t seem authentic.

00:36:47:25 - 00:36:55:24 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Well, I thought I recognized Ray Nance that covered so in that. But I’m not much of a bug for identifying it because, oh, it doesn’t. As I say, I didn’t.

00:36:55:24 - 00:36:58:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Joseph says. But did you hear him?

00:36:58:13 - 00:37:10:23 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yes, I did, two years ago, Ed and I used to be acutely aware of who play which. And as this sort of styles, evolved and, and one guy would be a splinter of somebody else, but it just got to be too much trouble anymore.

00:37:11:00 - 00:37:11:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:37:11:27 - 00:37:17:16 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: To identify for the person to identify it. I don’t care anymore. A guy plays good or works.

00:37:17:17 - 00:37:19:18 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And what is the end result is what’s important.

00:37:19:18 - 00:37:22:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, yeah. What about the trombone?

00:37:22:17 - 00:37:24:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You know why? Why?

00:37:24:16 - 00:37:30:29 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I still like it. I say it’s an old thing, but, but everybody has.

00:37:31:02 - 00:37:34:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: A little feeling like. Well, it has humor.

00:37:34:28 - 00:37:44:03 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, I like it for its humor. That’s why I like it. Yeah, it’s. I couldn’t take too much of a crank that, you know. Yeah, you’ve heard it, you know.

00:37:44:05 - 00:37:45:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Oh, there’s another trombone.

00:37:45:05 - 00:37:59:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: So good. After right here in the Guinness. I forgot. Without the Wawa. Yeah, that couldn’t be the territory, doctor. Thank the.

00:37:59:26 - 00:38:10:06 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, that’s beside the point. Let’s get to the race. So.

00:38:10:09 - 00:38:15:03 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I give it three.

00:38:15:05 - 00:38:19:08 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I like particularly the thing I like the best. And that was the background to the trombone.

00:38:19:10 - 00:38:21:06 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. Yeah, I like that.

00:38:21:09 - 00:38:29:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: The rhythmic feeling let’s say behind the combine. That was good. The thing had a good feeling. Well, it was better than that.

00:38:29:00 - 00:38:36:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, I thought that we do. I think the beat, the front, the front part was I was almost corny to me.

00:38:36:26 - 00:38:37:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:38:37:18 - 00:38:47:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But the background. But you see that the repetition, the way is repeated makes it sound like a couple of things in the back. You gave them something to repeat that way.

00:38:47:15 - 00:38:52:10 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I don’t know. Yeah. This was like.

00:38:52:12 - 00:39:03:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, what’s the like? I feel like I’m fairly right. That’s all right. Very dangerous. Well, anyway, once you read, that’s a hard thing.

00:39:03:09 - 00:39:14:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: It doesn’t make me happy. Go right up to, I like, I like it. I think that’s.

00:39:14:04 - 00:39:26:02 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Okay. I would give three stars for the horn players and the bass player and, I have nothing to say about the rest. It’s just nothing as far as I’m concerned.

00:39:26:04 - 00:39:26:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Okay?

00:39:26:16 - 00:39:37:07 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: You know, I haven’t. Oh, no. No, it’s just annoys me. That’s the kind of thing that I got run from the other end of the house to turn the damn thing off when it’s on.

00:39:37:09 - 00:39:41:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, have you heard it before? I, no, no, what you said, but I.

00:39:41:13 - 00:39:45:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I like, I like I just have to remember that Alex did something about this language.

00:39:45:14 - 00:39:52:22 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Oh, I don’t think that was Alex. I don’t think so. No.

00:39:52:24 - 00:39:54:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You know, you guys better not.

00:39:54:07 - 00:40:08:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, well, if he did, he he was, somebody suggested he do something like this that it would be commercial or something, and I don’t. Yeah.

00:40:08:07 - 00:40:13:19 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: j I.

00:40:13:21 - 00:40:21:24 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: if I like, did it, he did ask me to pay the grocery bill, but I don’t think he did. What is what.

00:40:21:26 - 00:40:25:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Can we give it here?

00:40:25:08 - 00:40:27:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, for my pleasure, I give it a one.

00:40:27:04 - 00:40:29:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. How about you?

00:40:29:17 - 00:40:36:18 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: What was I say? the thing itself. I wouldn’t give anything. Yeah, but for the performance of the horn players, I mean, I thought all they did.

00:40:36:18 - 00:40:37:19 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I think one player was good.

00:40:37:19 - 00:40:38:11 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Wasn’t? Yeah.

00:40:38:11 - 00:40:43:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That’s all. I mean, yeah, for him, that probably would work.

00:40:43:07 - 00:40:44:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, on the point of, you.

00:40:44:16 - 00:40:45:25 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Know, I mean, from that point that.

00:40:45:28 - 00:40:49:19 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I would give me an overall rating or what doesn’t matter anyway. You want to be separated?

00:40:49:19 - 00:40:52:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I think I’d give three for the performance.

00:40:52:02 - 00:40:52:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:40:52:25 - 00:40:55:22 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: And, one for the other. You got a hall?

00:40:55:22 - 00:41:06:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:41:06:25 - 00:41:15:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, musically, I don’t think much of it is entertainment. It’s a lot of fun.

00:41:15:17 - 00:41:16:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: To recognize everybody.

00:41:16:25 - 00:41:24:16 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, it’s very serious. And,

00:41:24:18 - 00:41:45:26 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I don’t know, as far as blues is concerned. My personal opinion is that if I never heard another blues as long as I live, I’d be happy. I never liked blues as far back as I can remember. And I still go, yeah, but, Charlie in the first place is a great entertainer when he sings. So I recognize what Charlie does.

00:41:45:28 - 00:42:03:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: yeah. I appreciate the challenge as as far as the type of player. Charlie’s a bit of a enigma to me. A lot of people don’t like Charlie’s playing. I’ve heard Charlie when he’s good, which I think few people have for some reason. And I feel that way, that it I feel somewhat that I’m one of the few guys that have heard Charlie play well.

00:42:03:04 - 00:42:15:28 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I know how he can play. And, likewise, he clouds around a lot, and he plays exactly as he feels at that moment. He doesn’t give a damn where he is. If it’s in a recording studio or.

00:42:15:28 - 00:42:21:25 Unknown Speaker: On jam or whatever. And, he’s kind of a Mexican guy. He plays another.

00:42:21:27 - 00:42:36:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Life. He’s. He’s famous, right? He plays great. If he gets a little serious about it, he does a lot of clowning, which is the general impression of Charlie’s playing that people have. But I heard him play real well. I mean, where I like the music.

00:42:36:02 - 00:42:40:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: would be any comment on this ranking?

00:42:40:25 - 00:42:54:09 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Well, or an arrangement that features a, anybody like that can’t be much more than adequate for the job. Yeah, it can’t overdo it. I think it does it very well.

00:42:54:12 - 00:43:00:06 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That does not good. Yeah.

00:43:00:08 - 00:43:03:17 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Nothing. So it’s.

00:43:03:20 - 00:43:10:02 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Well, out of the rating for for what’s intended. I say three from year.

00:43:10:04 - 00:43:16:24 Unknown Speaker: What about you? Yeah. Has to be three quarters and four.

00:43:16:26 - 00:43:18:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Okay, well, you didn’t say what man it was.

00:43:18:28 - 00:43:20:08 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Does it?

00:43:20:11 - 00:43:25:22 Unknown Speaker: That’s,

00:43:25:24 - 00:43:26:19 Unknown Speaker: I’m not thinking.

00:43:26:21 - 00:43:45:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I’m thinking commercially or thinking for, esthetic pleasure, I think. So what? Do you recognize I have no. I have a gimmick in recording Tony Bradshaw.

00:43:45:06 - 00:44:04:19 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I don’t know who those people are. It’s no surprise. Well, surprising. What do you think of it? Well, I’m, I’m taking in with the exuberance that, the kids, the place that, that I enjoy.

00:44:04:19 - 00:44:06:18 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I rather resent the young.

00:44:06:21 - 00:44:11:03 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: But as far as the performance of the band or anything, that’s cool.

00:44:11:06 - 00:44:14:29 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And what it does and what is the purpose of it is show business.

00:44:15:02 - 00:44:16:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:44:16:14 - 00:44:23:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And and reiterated on that basis, that’s what one has. But that is a musical entity. Yeah.

00:44:23:13 - 00:44:24:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:44:24:13 - 00:44:30:25 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: The odd thing is, is that there was, more sincerity in the reaction of the kids in, in anything that was put to them there, I think.

00:44:30:29 - 00:44:32:06 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:44:32:09 - 00:44:40:10 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: You know, that I appreciate that, that you guys, for a beat or whatever, it excites them.

00:44:40:12 - 00:44:45:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: No stars.

00:44:45:22 - 00:44:47:18 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: We’re rating a band. Really? Not the audience.

00:44:47:18 - 00:44:50:14 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, yeah, it’s supposed.

00:44:50:16 - 00:44:53:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, I mean, we’re supposed to rate the overall.

00:44:53:04 - 00:44:53:21 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. Right.

00:44:53:25 - 00:45:00:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, yeah, because it did have excitement. so that’s one.

00:45:00:14 - 00:45:04:12 Unknown Speaker: Yeah.

00:45:04:15 - 00:45:06:12 Unknown Speaker: Well.

00:45:06:15 - 00:45:12:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: From an exciting standpoint, I’d say to. Okay. And this is mainly for the reaction of the kids, not with the band.

00:45:12:11 - 00:45:17:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:45:17:08 - 00:45:32:29 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I like I like the alto. It’s, it was incongruous in the taste of. All that, the you’re dressing, not oily English and whatnot.

00:45:33:01 - 00:45:38:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But,

00:45:38:15 - 00:45:42:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I know it wasn’t intended, but that was a funny. You got to be.

00:45:42:07 - 00:45:43:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Someone.

00:45:43:03 - 00:45:46:11 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: As a funny sort of beauty and the beast. I like Charlie Parker, but it.

00:45:46:11 - 00:45:48:16 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Was that it was good. But it.

00:45:48:19 - 00:45:49:13 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Must be very.

00:45:49:16 - 00:45:50:17 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Very bad.

00:45:50:19 - 00:45:55:09 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I would rather have heard him just play along with no background and hear that very question.

00:45:55:09 - 00:46:10:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Nobody in the reason, I mean, yeah, yeah, that was real good what he did. But in some context it would mean how do you like the writing? I think the writing would.

00:46:10:26 - 00:46:12:29 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: The writing itself was all right. I yeah, I don’t.

00:46:12:29 - 00:46:14:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Know, it was habit, but it was

00:46:15:00 - 00:46:15:25 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: But not for.

00:46:15:26 - 00:46:22:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The cliches were drawing. Yeah, yeah. Well, they shouldn’t have been, but, I thought it was played really.

00:46:22:22 - 00:46:28:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: very bad, very badly done. I’ve read.

00:46:28:02 - 00:46:31:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, it’s both one star, whoever’s.

00:46:31:04 - 00:46:36:13 Unknown Speaker: That’s it. Yeah. I like,

00:46:36:15 - 00:46:47:20 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I don’t know, it’s hard to read and to look at it as an overall because I say I like what Charlie did in there. Yeah, I didn’t get the rest of it was just as bad.

00:46:47:20 - 00:46:50:26 Unknown Speaker: It’s, you know, so I don’t know what way.

00:46:50:28 - 00:46:56:10 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I don’t mess as well, I guess. Two of his two. Yeah. Oh. The sound.

00:46:56:12 - 00:46:58:02 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: It had a little slick Hollywood sound.

00:46:58:02 - 00:47:03:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That was set up, I think, it might have been another world of arrangement. Oh, yeah?

00:47:03:14 - 00:47:04:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: You think so?

00:47:04:02 - 00:47:05:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:47:05:14 - 00:47:10:26 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I don’t know. Alec wouldn’t use that little, Hollywood set.

00:47:10:28 - 00:47:17:17 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I’m not knowing too many of Alec’s arrangements. I don’t know why. Like, you know what he does with his.

00:47:17:20 - 00:47:20:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You know, I want to venture a guess, but.

00:47:20:25 - 00:47:26:07 Unknown Speaker: Who wrote it to me? Yeah.

00:47:29:29 - 00:47:37:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: It might have been. I can’t think of the guy’s name, though. I know this Hollywood guy who wrote the things, but probably not.

00:47:37:02 - 00:47:42:20 Unknown Speaker: What’s his name? But, he was with,

00:47:42:22 - 00:47:46:18 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: He used to write for. He did a lot of things right. Ray Burns, man.

00:47:46:20 - 00:47:47:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: George. Attic.

00:47:47:13 - 00:47:50:01 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: No, no. Johnny. Yeah.

00:47:50:03 - 00:47:50:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Oh, yeah.

00:47:50:29 - 00:47:56:12 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Might have been him. As a matter of fact, this sounded good for him. That part right in there. Yeah.

00:47:56:14 - 00:48:13:18 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The part running is. What made you think it might be out? Yeah, but that there are cliches that are that like. So I really don’t know. Yeah, I like that. It has a hint of a sound to it. I think,

00:48:13:20 - 00:48:21:02 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I like the piece. Yeah. I thought the performance to forest is relative enough. No, that’s that’s an insensitive.

00:48:21:03 - 00:48:38:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. And the the he should have been, had a penis. a a string. Oh. Word for what? The music it was. Must be fucking rough. the the players didn’t seem to grasp what was written. But I like it.

00:48:38:17 - 00:48:40:24 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: so it might have been the engineering to.

00:48:40:27 - 00:48:41:25 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The character, you.

00:48:41:25 - 00:48:43:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Know, the way they level dynamics.

00:48:43:09 - 00:48:56:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: you know, in retrospect, I think that thing of dudes comes alive more and more. But I like this. But if I’m if I give this, I want to get this one. Okay. we’ll change that.

00:48:56:15 - 00:48:59:11 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: How about, you know, I feel this about the same, but.

00:48:59:13 - 00:49:02:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Just if you do it for two, I think it did.

00:49:02:10 - 00:49:07:27 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah.

00:49:08:00 - 00:49:13:04 Unknown Speaker: But then that.

00:49:13:06 - 00:49:39:08 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, you know what’s strange looking back here, but what what really did I get that other movie early in the two, two? Well, they should go to a one early one and they should have more. But. And also I think that Billy Mason or if it was done maybe gave a three. Yeah. And that doesn’t stack up with the what we’ve heard since then either.

00:49:39:10 - 00:49:39:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:49:39:22 - 00:49:40:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: It makes it pretty difficult.

00:49:41:00 - 00:49:44:29 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, okay. We can say, the,

00:49:45:02 - 00:50:04:08 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But this I like it. What? I like the way they played. I don’t like what they played. Yeah. the material was pretty empty. Again. It’s a sense of shape. I think there’s. Isn’t there? Yeah. Little chance at stop and go. Do you go along with that, though?

00:50:04:10 - 00:50:09:07 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Pretty much so I like some things that probably had. And I like the saxophone.

00:50:09:09 - 00:50:12:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I like this, I so did I,

00:50:12:26 - 00:50:31:22 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Oh. It is isn’t important to me, as I say, because these guys are well molded into a thing. I’ve heard Lee Konitz, where he plays more like himself. than on the record, because Ralph, for instance, you know, that that could have been Charlie Parker as far as I’m concerned. It still could have been. If I heard it again, I’d say, let be quiet.

00:50:31:23 - 00:50:33:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: It’s like a really people.

00:50:33:02 - 00:50:41:18 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: So who this kind of man was, I don’t know, he sounded like Stan Getz. Yeah. To me. Yeah. And I liked what he did as a delicacy.

00:50:41:20 - 00:51:00:14 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I like what he did that isn’t what I meant. Before I go, I like the soloist, but, I think it’s fine, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, but I don’t like the, I suppose, it has, a one strain emotional content.

00:51:00:17 - 00:51:02:01 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:51:02:04 - 00:51:03:11 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: It’s not a very deep record.

00:51:03:17 - 00:51:32:03 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I’ll tell you one thing I don’t like in general, with any record like this, any any of these, large, bands that play this style I’m avoiding. The word is an angry sound the brass gets. I don’t find that exciting. It’s just ugly. Yeah, it’s a brass can sparkling and and have a, an exuberant sound that that seems to be intended of that sound like everybody’s frowning.

00:51:32:03 - 00:51:39:12 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: It’s mad, you know, frowning, angry style. I don’t like that. What I don’t like is whistling past.

00:51:39:15 - 00:51:54:06 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The never ending procession of, corporations that aren’t modern. They have no meaning to the whole play there. For somebody who used to, to exercise his technique on.

00:51:54:08 - 00:52:21:08 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, instead of basing these tunes on, Indiana and, Georgia from, a half a dozen others that are the repertoire of these things, they might as well start with the psychosis and just, go through the cycle and make that. Yeah, yeah, because that’s what it amounts to anyway. Yeah, they they always pick the tone with all the dominant seventh or.

00:52:21:11 - 00:52:27:15 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah. Which, begins to sound somewhat the same after a while. To me, I like it.

00:52:30:12 - 00:52:39:07 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: So the differences between one band or another or one guy or another become so fine that that is just too much to bother with. Their line still close?

00:52:39:10 - 00:52:41:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: how would you read.

00:52:41:03 - 00:52:45:27 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That song on its own merits? Well, if we gave the other one to the other ones, you go back.

00:52:45:29 - 00:52:48:03 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, yeah, I give this three.

00:52:48:04 - 00:53:00:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I give the three, and the other one should go back to one. And the flat I go to bed with both know that is one thing that. Okay,

00:53:00:17 - 00:53:16:29 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I get the effect of, bounty over eight streetwalker supporting herself in a part that was shot.

00:53:17:01 - 00:53:38:28 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I think left me in neutral. Yeah. as I said to Ed Benes, the only guy that ever played anything like that, that I. There may be other guys that I just haven’t heard that could play a thing like that and make it sound good, whoever this was. Hey, any good sound? He had a I mean, just regarding the strings playing that style of melody, noodling around the melody, this staying with the melody like that.

00:53:39:00 - 00:53:48:19 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: for me, the guy had a heavy fourth kind of a sound that I didn’t like. the. He sounded at ease on it, and he played a little jazz, like, you know. yeah.

00:53:48:21 - 00:53:57:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: He was. But the overall incongruity of the strings with this type of sound is a not to me. Yeah.

00:53:57:25 - 00:54:08:21 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Well, from a, color standpoint, I didn’t mind the strength of the clarinet. I thought the, as far as sound is concerned, they go together quite well in this case.

00:54:08:23 - 00:54:13:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: As far as sound. Yeah, but they certainly played in two different venues.

00:54:13:08 - 00:54:16:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

00:54:16:11 - 00:54:33:01 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I thought, they went to my first opinion. Well, I think it’s worth well, for me.

00:54:33:03 - 00:54:47:27 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Oh, it’s not as bad as about playing. I shouldn’t say that. They don’t deserve. No, no, no, I’m I know personalities. I know,

00:54:47:29 - 00:54:49:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I suppose too.

00:54:49:09 - 00:54:54:22 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: That’s actually, I think.

00:54:54:25 - 00:54:56:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, I.

00:54:56:06 - 00:54:57:10 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Might not like it might be Woody.

00:54:57:10 - 00:54:59:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Herman. They’re on board again with the same thing.

00:54:59:27 - 00:55:00:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:55:00:16 - 00:55:05:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But, the excitement was wonderful, and I liked the solos on it. I like the feeling.

00:55:06:00 - 00:55:07:26 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: The beginning tickled me. Yeah.

00:55:07:28 - 00:55:10:01 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. You know.

00:55:10:04 - 00:55:14:21 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I would like to have more of that feeling. Maybe not the same thing, but.

00:55:14:23 - 00:55:19:23 Unknown Speaker: it tickled the beginning. The count?

00:55:19:26 - 00:55:20:13 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah. The way it would.

00:55:20:14 - 00:55:30:10 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Go down the pieces. Yeah, yeah. Like that. I like. I like the way the trumpet came out. I like the piano. I like the feeling of the rhythm.

00:55:30:12 - 00:55:32:20 Unknown Speaker: but I, I don’t like.

00:55:32:22 - 00:55:45:16 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The content, the overall shape. But the difficult thing to explain that it has no substance. It has no substance saying yes, yes, yes, this particular type of music. Yeah.

00:55:45:18 - 00:55:53:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: One thing that that should be taken into consideration, I think the thing I can speak to both in this respect.

00:55:53:07 - 00:55:59:23 Unknown Speaker: Is that of.

00:55:59:25 - 00:56:07:16 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: And, and I quote, I got up to here many years ago with ad libbed solos, improvised solos, you know.

00:56:07:18 - 00:56:12:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And the guy gets up and does a dance and, and, the sports technique and,

00:56:12:25 - 00:56:30:19 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I’ve heard some that I liked or very few, very few, I must say. yeah. The solos never fit the piece. and if it’s going to be in a big band, I think that if a guy’s going to play on it, it’s all about a fit in the spot where he’s playing it. So that it adds to the overall of a piece of it as to the shape of a piece.

00:56:30:19 - 00:56:32:00 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: And yeah, it becomes part of it.

00:56:32:06 - 00:56:33:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Very old hat, but,

00:56:33:25 - 00:56:52:13 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: But very few people, there’ll be a beginning like this thing, for example, with, good imagination. And as I say, it tickled me the way it started out. Yeah. And then guys come in and play the same old hackneyed cliches that, as little lessening as I’ve done in the past year. it still sounds like, I think many times.

00:56:52:15 - 00:56:54:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, Dr. Harrison comes up with the right thing.

00:56:54:27 - 00:56:57:25 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, yeah, there’s an excitement,

00:56:57:27 - 00:56:59:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Maintenance things of it.

00:56:59:11 - 00:56:59:29 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:57:00:04 - 00:57:31:04 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: A strong, identity, strong individuality. But still, he makes him fit into the piece, you know? So he fits into the piece. The very few guys do, I. I don’t know, I can’t think of anybody offhand. And, that strongly affects any opinion I have about a, I know the overall of a piece. I kind of ad adlib solos and an ad in my case, it may be just a case of, ego where we were never satisfied to submerge ourselves into a cliched style where you, you know, make a framework for guys to play that live.

00:57:31:04 - 00:57:37:17 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Solos. Yeah. If guys want to do that, that’s great. I don’t yeah, I don’t think it does either. I don’t.

00:57:37:17 - 00:57:40:16 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Like it. Yeah. And it works. Yeah.

00:57:40:18 - 00:57:43:16 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Well, mainly because they never made them.

00:57:43:16 - 00:57:46:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Some of them have some demo after thugs.

00:57:46:02 - 00:57:50:16 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: overall you know, a rating.

00:57:50:19 - 00:58:05:10 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, was not it’s not possible. It’s not as I don’t clear it up a little better than three three and. Yeah, don’t go down too far.

00:58:05:12 - 00:58:10:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well but for what it is, it’s real good.

00:58:11:00 - 00:58:13:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Well, Bill, can we get any.

00:58:13:00 - 00:58:14:27 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Disagreement on ready for change?

00:58:14:29 - 00:58:32:25 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Yeah, I. And I kind of the beginning of the piece and I’m writing, the writing and the way they played it, just regarding the ad libs, which I didn’t like it all. Yeah. for I’d give if I gave Duke for. And another thing this should have for.

00:58:32:25 - 00:58:33:18 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. I suppose.

00:58:33:24 - 00:58:40:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You know. Okay. Well, you raised an interesting point there because.

00:58:40:24 - 00:58:43:01 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: particularly about ad lib solos, because in most of the.

00:58:43:01 - 00:58:44:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Great acknowledged.

00:58:44:24 - 00:58:48:14 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Great orchestras like, Ellington and so forth.

00:58:48:20 - 00:58:50:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Improvised solos have been a very.

00:58:50:02 - 00:58:50:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Important part.

00:58:50:22 - 00:58:52:14 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Here. But they all record so far.

00:58:52:14 - 00:58:54:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: They have been a very minor part. I think.

00:58:54:02 - 00:58:54:23 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The adjective.

00:58:54:23 - 00:58:55:06 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Adjectives about.

00:58:55:06 - 00:59:10:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: The only one I’m not against. I live solos as such, but I think that when a man takes an ad lib, solo has a responsibility to the whole to say something. Yeah, it’s got to fit. It has to have. If it comes on in the middle of a piece, it has to have something that goes with the middle of the piece.

00:59:10:09 - 00:59:30:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, not a bunch of stocks and stops the way it usually happens. And I’m not concerned or even interested in the person’s technique is what he’s got to say. And I imagine that lots of times instrumentalists are able to disadvantage because they’re not provided with a framework to do this sort of. Yeah, and framework isn’t enough. So we’re talking about framework.

00:59:30:09 - 00:59:45:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: When I say framework, it’s not in the same context that you mentioned it before. so the thing is, if you don’t it has to be a poetic whole about it. Yeah. So, people who are at let me have to understand that. Yeah. And it doesn’t happen all well, like, what I was going to say is.

00:59:45:12 - 00:59:46:01 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That, if.

00:59:46:01 - 00:59:49:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You don’t give them Indiana or something about as simple as that, then they’re not going to be able.

00:59:49:12 - 00:59:49:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: To improvise.

00:59:49:28 - 00:59:51:03 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Freely. So nothing happens.

00:59:51:03 - 00:59:58:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And it’s two it becomes hard. Yeah. And if you do get Indiana, it sounds like somebody’s parading his technique. Yeah. It’s just a boring thing.

00:59:59:00 - 00:59:59:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

00:59:59:29 - 01:00:09:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: So he’s hitting home runs. He’s standing up and yeah, I know. And being the hero. Yeah. Instead of submerging himself to the music.

01:00:09:22 - 01:00:12:09 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: He’s playing the same things he played on the last ten tunes.

01:00:12:09 - 01:00:15:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: He’s putting his personality above the music. Yeah. I’m incredible.

01:00:15:26 - 01:00:23:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: have you made any further use of Improvization on either side? I haven’t heard. Well that’s great. Different.

01:00:23:17 - 01:00:29:13 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: I guess we haven’t had. We know,

01:00:29:15 - 01:00:31:28 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: yeah. Yeah. What? What’d you tell them what to do?

01:00:31:28 - 01:00:38:26 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Was that more or less, had led to some extent, because one man was playing the melody anyway.

01:00:38:27 - 01:00:48:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. No, I think we gave him a rough framework, but Bill came up with something that was. Yes. Yeah. And, it’s admirable. Yeah, sure.

01:00:48:17 - 01:00:49:14 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: And it’s something as a.

01:00:49:14 - 01:00:50:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Restraint.

01:00:50:12 - 01:01:01:07 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: That you don’t hear in a, in a quick hearing as a piece. It’s something you got to, look into on hearing the solo, but it’s so rife with the thing. It’s just that’s what we’re talking about. That’s a good example of what’s right for the spot.

01:01:01:13 - 01:01:02:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

01:01:02:12 - 01:01:06:01 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: He did very little, but it was just perfect what he did, I think.

01:01:06:03 - 01:01:06:22 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Can you give me any.

01:01:06:22 - 01:01:07:24 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Examples of any records.

01:01:07:24 - 01:01:13:05 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: You heard, that you would consider Five Star Records as a jazz, more or less jazz for you.

01:01:13:10 - 01:01:22:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: On the band? yeah. The the tuba went up, for fun. Miles Davis.

01:01:22:06 - 01:01:23:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Oh, yeah.

01:01:23:05 - 01:01:26:00 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But I will have no call on the first listening.

01:01:26:07 - 01:01:27:24 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: With the exception of Miles.

01:01:27:26 - 01:01:28:29 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah, yeah.

01:01:29:01 - 01:01:33:08 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: He was the worst thing on the record. Yeah, but the feeling and the way the other guys play.

01:01:33:09 - 01:01:35:09 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Idea. The whole idea. Yeah.

01:01:35:12 - 01:01:42:27 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Here’s another thing. When the overall comes off as well as that did, I can tolerate the click some of the cliches that go to make it up. Yeah that’s about what it amounts.

01:01:42:27 - 01:01:48:07 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But the first listening I don’t know that I should have rated it that way. I see because it lives with me.

01:01:48:09 - 01:01:53:15 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. That’s right. Does take time. We get to like something like that. One example because I.

01:01:53:16 - 01:02:09:08 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Go in jazz. I’m sure there are others I don’t listen. Oh, yeah. I have to be honest. Well, that’s a good thing about the art of that is how often they they come up with the right type of adlib.

01:02:09:11 - 01:02:10:20 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah. Oh, I did.

01:02:10:20 - 01:02:12:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: That, my friends. Of course.

01:02:12:14 - 01:02:30:29 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Because here’s my situation for listening. I was away for a couple of years, and I’ve been back a little over a year now, and for this past year, my radio hasn’t worked. and I just haven’t bothered. I haven’t to have things fixed. So frankly, I haven’t heard anything except, some records.

01:02:31:03 - 01:02:32:10 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: And was some records.

01:02:32:13 - 01:02:37:14 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: And I just had it fixed lately and realized that I didn’t miss a thing. It’s,

01:02:37:17 - 01:02:39:06 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Yeah.

01:02:39:09 - 01:02:41:22 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: I can’t stand that. The hours of listening to.

01:02:41:22 - 01:02:43:12 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: Find good good on the radio.

01:02:43:12 - 01:02:44:12 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Right. Because most of.

01:02:44:12 - 01:02:47:02 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: It’s it’s all with the collection and they’re not making good records.

01:02:47:04 - 01:03:10:24 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: My household has never been as peaceful as it’s been in the last year without a radio. But again, it’s a unique experience.

01:03:10:27 - 01:03:18:22 Unknown Speaker: All the value is creeping.

01:03:18:25 - 01:03:23:04 Leonard Feather or Les McCann: But, don’t.

01:03:23:07 - 01:03:42:21 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: Enlighten this soon. Oh, it will be. Silly me.

01:03:42:23 - 01:04:06:06 Unknown Speaker: Speaker: For the evening. And that’s the top of the British Empire building. tomorrow afternoon at 330. At which time Australian and New Zealand officials, civic leaders and members of the Anzac Club, the Australian Society and their American friends will gather to pay tribute and reaffirm the friendship that exists between Australia, New Zealand and the United States. This year’s ceremonies will include addresses by.