Johnny Mandel (Blindfold Test), 1958 [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:02 Johnny Mandel: Okay.

00:00:21:04 - 00:00:24:04 Johnny Mandel: Okay.

00:00:24:07 - 00:00:54:21 Johnny Mandel: I really have no idea who this is. It picks up good romance. All right. Oh, no. It sounds like it could be one of cannonballs. Dates with the. About a 910 piece band. I’ve never heard it before. It sounds like it’s recorded in a bucket. Like most of the records that are made. You like the general sound of recording that?

00:00:54:23 - 00:01:16:29 Johnny Mandel: Yeah, I really do. I think that, Yeah. As far as I know, as far as recording bands or anybody, I haven’t heard anyone yet who records sound nearly as well as Larry Old Guard. I’ll probably make a lot of enemies saying that, but once you get a point that it doesn’t sound natural ever. It sounds like playing a loud pedal piano with a loud pedal constantly pressed down with all the echo they have.

00:01:16:29 - 00:01:24:20 Johnny Mandel: There must’ve been a 2 or 3 second hang over on this. Yeah. Oh.

00:01:24:22 - 00:01:45:10 Johnny Mandel: gee, I don’t know who have these people. Could have been a baritone. Could have been Cecil Payne. The trombone played fast enough to sound like you need to like Jimmy Cleveland or Francoise Leno, but it didn’t sound quite like either. Probably more like Cleveland. Yeah. Sounded too clean. I don’t know quite who it could have been.

00:01:45:13 - 00:02:15:14 Johnny Mandel: The alto sounded quite a bit like Cannonball, but it also could have been Gene Quill. You know, the trumpets first one sounded like Natalie to me. The second one sounded like Ernie Royal. That’s about all I can tell you. how about the writing on the performance? both of them were pretty ragged, I thought. Yeah. Should I say, I don’t think the writing was done justice to.

00:02:15:17 - 00:02:28:10 Johnny Mandel: Yeah. But I really don’t know who this was. Another writing system provided the sensation for writing three. Good. And to fare one lousy.

00:02:28:12 - 00:02:35:26 Johnny Mandel: I’d give it three. Good. Potentially. It could have been much better.

00:02:35:29 - 00:02:42:01 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:02:42:03 - 00:02:51:18 Leonard Feather: Well.

00:02:51:21 - 00:02:59:21 Leonard Feather: That.

00:02:59:24 - 00:03:29:08 Johnny Mandel: You rolling? Yeah. Oh, well, this one’s for me, too. It sounded like it was just recently made. It, sounds like it could either be peanut Taco or Sawyer. Good. Probably peanuts. I don’t know, though. These I don’t recognize either. As far as piano is concerned, I’m really throwing it. Could have been Gene Schrader. Could have been a couple of people.

00:03:29:15 - 00:04:02:21 Johnny Mandel: I didn’t recognize the rhythm section or the trumpet player. Trombone could have been Cutty cuts all over. And, The trumpet was not Pee-Wee Irwin, but I don’t know who that. I don’t know who it was. the trumpet player, I’d say, was the weakest one of the bunch. Yeah, he didn’t sound like anybody I knew. Like Peewee or Wild Bill or Mugsy or anybody like that.

00:04:02:23 - 00:04:15:17 Johnny Mandel: This kind of sounded like a second string. Yeah, of course I don’t. I really don’t know who it was. And the drummer didn’t sound like he was at home either.

00:04:15:20 - 00:04:33:16 Johnny Mandel: Did you mention the trombone? it. Cut saw is who I thought it may have been. That’s about it. Yeah. Piano. I’m really thrown on. I don’t know who this is. I know the style. He’s got some Teddy Wilson in of my. I just can’t place quite who it is. What would you think of that? I mean, the class of performers it represents.

00:04:33:19 - 00:04:57:17 Johnny Mandel: It’s, I think it’s, very jaded. It feels to me like they’re playing something they don’t quite like. They’re going through the motions. Yeah, it’s pretty hard to find. good practitioners of this music anymore. I don’t know why. I guess the enthusiasm is gone out of it. Yeah. And, you know, it’s a shame that I have to always turn to the older records.

00:04:57:19 - 00:05:27:27 Johnny Mandel: That’s true. To hear something I enjoy of this sort. I don’t know, this sounds like it was just like they were going through the motions to me. Yeah. Would you give it one? Yeah. One. Stop. Okay. One star. I’ve heard that before. No. I think you’re really throwing the book at me today. Well, it’s. Well, right off. There’s no question that that was back on top as far as the piano player was concerned.

00:05:27:29 - 00:05:40:22 Johnny Mandel: And it sounded like it could have been Freddie. Also with him, Freddie Green trumpet was sweet. No question about that. It sounds like it might have been one of the sweetest tunes to.

00:05:40:24 - 00:05:50:01 Johnny Mandel: And, it sounded like there wasn’t an alto involved in this thing at all. Tenor lead.

00:05:50:04 - 00:06:09:28 Johnny Mandel: The chart, I’d say, was terrible. And the recording sound was bad enough to even be Norman Grant’s. Who I think is probably put the worst sound on records ever made, with probably the best talent involved.

00:06:10:00 - 00:06:29:29 Johnny Mandel: Well, I’m not going to make friends this time. I’m. Well, you’re being honest, which makes for it. Well, you usually have to take your choice of one of the two, you know? So. Right. You, That’s about best I could put my finger on. I’m sure that was Basie. And I’m sure that was sweet. That’s about all I know.

00:06:30:02 - 00:06:51:08 Johnny Mandel: I know it wasn’t a A-flat. Yeah. Writing is, one. But. Two stars and one of them. Because Bassey was on it. Oh, yeah.

00:06:51:10 - 00:07:19:05 Johnny Mandel: Oh, I don’t know what this is, but it sounds like one of the. Well, it’s Basie and Freddie again. It sounds like one of those sextet sides Bassey might have made sometime during 1950. I think he did a lot of those things on Columbia. That was buddy DeFranco. Clarinet sounded like Wardell on tenor. That sounded like Gus Johnson, possibly to me, either Gus or Joe Jones.

00:07:19:05 - 00:07:35:05 Johnny Mandel: I think it was Gus Johnson on drums, because it settled enough to be Gus. And as for the rest of them, I couldn’t tell. Nobody had anything to play. There was a trumpet in there, and.

00:07:35:07 - 00:07:56:23 Johnny Mandel: Let’s see, there was. It was blues and one of the blues and C or something like that. Bunch of riffs that he’s used on a lot of things like, Gone with what? Wind and, Boogie Woogie called at one time. And yeah, it’s come out under a lot of different names and.

00:07:56:26 - 00:08:08:05 Johnny Mandel: No, give it four stars for Basie. It’s not a great record, but it’s a good one.

00:08:08:07 - 00:08:35:29 Johnny Mandel: You know that stuff? Yeah. I think this thing is called bread. Yeah, that’s. This is kind of unfair because I played the chart many times with DC, and it’s a wonderful chart. Ernie Wilkins wrote his you know what’s off. And, Well, I’m glad I played it otherwise. Thanks to Norman again, the band sounds like it’s underwater, and I wouldn’t have known what it sounded like.

00:08:36:02 - 00:09:03:07 Johnny Mandel: That was Joe Newman. God bless him on trumpet and lockjaw. Eddie Davis on tenor playing is usual great. That man can whip everybody up to such a fever pitch. He’s really got a tremendous drive, and it was a good band, and it’s just a shame that it wasn’t heard better. I heard Norman once say that this was a commercial sound and that it sold records.

00:09:03:13 - 00:09:30:25 Johnny Mandel: An answer to someone who asked him why it was, why the sound was so bad on these records. So that you joined the band after you left? It was made before I joined it. The band got a lot better later too. It was just beginning to really shape up. Then let’s put this what it was about 53, 53.

00:09:30:27 - 00:09:37:08 Johnny Mandel: You know, the band was just beginning to settle about this time. Know?

00:09:37:11 - 00:10:10:17 Johnny Mandel: Well, this made it on the basis of the, Well, for everything else but the recording quality itself, I’ve got to give it five stars. Yeah. You know. Well, this isn’t a hard one to. Peg, as far as what it is. It’s a very distinctive sound, but it’s a very hard one to read. This is, I guess, that part of that.

00:10:10:20 - 00:10:39:28 Johnny Mandel: sing a song of Daisy or sing along with Daisy. It’s, one of the basic standards taken and set to lyrics. I think the lyrics were very skillfully written. But unfortunately, there was such mouthfuls that, it’s probably the reason they took the tempo much too slow on this thing. And the rhythm section, although I guess it’s probably base’s rhythm section, sounds terribly mushy in account of it.

00:10:40:05 - 00:11:03:07 Johnny Mandel: And a lot of that’s the recording too. again, it sounds like it’s in a barrel. There’s no presents from anybody except the singers who are right on top of it. individually, I think the singers are all great and the lyrics are very good and, well, Annie Ross, I think is the best. Yeah, I think she’s the best.

00:11:03:07 - 00:11:22:00 Johnny Mandel: Damn singer I’ve ever heard. Yeah. As far as playing, I don’t mean. Yeah, just about in all categories. I’d like to hear a lot more of her. Yeah. Singing slow songs and everything else. I think she’s a marvel. And nobody can lay down time like this girl. Yeah, it has range. She’s got a voice that just does everything from God.

00:11:22:00 - 00:11:44:15 Johnny Mandel: She practically encompasses the old piano keyboard. She’s got a freak voice, but it’s correct. To hear this group with even almost through one tune gives me the jitters. I don’t know how to rate this record. It’s got more damn talent on it. And yet I can’t say I like the sum total at all. Yeah. Was it because you have too much of a sentimental attachment to the original?

00:11:44:18 - 00:12:01:17 Johnny Mandel: No, not at all. I just don’t like the group as a group. And I love the people as individuals. Not personally, but musically. I like the group. If they’d slip into a constant diet of this kind of a thing, I can’t stand to listen to a whole side. Yeah, I didn’t mean to turn this into a personal criticism.

00:12:01:19 - 00:12:19:13 Johnny Mandel: Oh, I see what you mean. Because, frankly, I think the group needs all the help it can get and should have it. Yeah, I just think they should break it up more. This here, it’s, It seems to me like it’s, a lot of effort was not nearly as rewarding result as it should have been for what went into it.

00:12:19:15 - 00:12:32:09 Johnny Mandel: Yeah, and it was very well handled, both from John’s and particularly Annie’s. You know, I don’t know what to say, how to write this.

00:12:32:12 - 00:12:45:18 Johnny Mandel: Oh, you use three stars in Annie for effort. Oh, right. Do.

00:12:45:20 - 00:13:03:01 Johnny Mandel: Well, the first thing it struck me. Just the sound. Some sounds kind of like capital. I don’t know why, but it does. And all I hear is brass. I guess it’s done only with brass and a rhythm section.

00:13:03:04 - 00:13:06:20 Johnny Mandel: And,

00:13:06:22 - 00:13:31:19 Johnny Mandel: It’s hard to say who these people are. That could be net person piano. It’s not Basie, that’s for sure. It’s someone who’s trying to sound that way. It, somebody has made quite a study of Basie. The rhythm section sounds nice. Again, I think there’s a little too much check on the thing. Quite a bit too much. The vibes.

00:13:31:19 - 00:13:47:15 Johnny Mandel: I don’t know who they sound like. They’re recorded funny. They sound like milk bottles. Almost. It didn’t sound like Terry Gibbs to me. I don’t know who that could have been. Guitar sounded like I could have been Jim Hall, but I don’t think it was. I can’t pick out any of the individuals. The rhythm felt good. The drums and bass were very nice.

00:13:47:17 - 00:14:11:26 Johnny Mandel: You know. Could have possibly been that album that shearing did with brass, or the one that Terry Gibbs did with brass. That’s the only ones I know of, but it doesn’t sound like Terry to me for some reason, except for the fact that he hits the instrument very hard and uses hard mallets. I give up. Well, the chart was, blues riffs.

00:14:11:28 - 00:14:28:21 Johnny Mandel: I don’t know if I could rate it at all on the basis of the chart. It was, couldn’t say they’re good or bad or not. It was just a head arrangement. From the sound of it. three stars. Okay.

00:14:28:23 - 00:14:56:28 Johnny Mandel: I was, like you said about the sound, right? The start. Just more echo on. Echo on echo. It sounds like, I don’t know, they seem to turn it on. And the same thing happens every time the brass thins out. All you hear is the trumpets. No presence, no trombones, no nothing, no middle, just garbled. Well it sounds like somebody maybe ran the new somebody playing the Benny Goodman stock.

00:14:57:00 - 00:15:24:14 Johnny Mandel: on the 1:00 jump. I gotta say, in 1938, it would have rated three stars. 1948 two stars and 58 no stars. Very good. What? Well, no. You’ve been trying to really throw curves at me. This sounds like most of the Basie band. And this is an it sounds like an original recording. Quality wise, it’s flat.

00:15:24:16 - 00:15:44:26 Johnny Mandel: I don’t know, I think the old recording sound better than the new ones with all the I like that first song. Yeah. At least I know what’s playing and who and almost who’s playing it. Well, sounds like topsy, but, it sounds like most of the Basie band, but I know Buck Clayton played the opening, I’m sure of that.

00:15:44:26 - 00:16:06:04 Johnny Mandel: But it didn’t sound like Jack Washington on that. On certain. More like Harry Carney to me, the piano. I don’t know who it was that threw me, but it wasn’t Basie that sound like Buddy Tate on tenor as far as the solo is concerned. And I know I heard Earl Warren wailing in the background.

00:16:06:07 - 00:16:10:18 Johnny Mandel: It sounded like Joe Jones.

00:16:10:21 - 00:16:37:02 Johnny Mandel: And it sounded like it might have been recorded around 1940 of 41. That’s about all I can tell you. Like it, I like it. I thought it was not very well played. It sounded like it was kind of thrown together and well in retrospect I’d say. For what it was at the time, four stars.

00:16:37:05 - 00:16:58:01 Johnny Mandel: Well, the only comments I can make on this and so I don’t know what it is. Our general ones. It’s damn good. And the big trouble today, I guess, is that they put out so many records, it’s impossible to listen to everything. And this is something I should know. And don’t. It sounds like one of those festival things.

00:16:58:03 - 00:17:21:20 Johnny Mandel: And whoever recorded it. Three cheers for once. It’s good. It really is. I hear everything the brass is. It’s it’s really well recorded. It sounds like it might have been a one MC job. Like a symphony? No, which is the way I wish they all were. It sounds. It was written definitely by somebody who? It’s. Although it’s written as a legitimate piece, as somebody who has its roots in jazz.

00:17:21:20 - 00:17:46:08 Johnny Mandel: Wrote this thing, and it sounds like. It sounds a little less tame than John Lewis has been writing recently, although almost everything as his I’ve heard, has been for the quartet in recent years. Understood. J.J. Johnson did one of these things, too, and it sounds like it could be one. It could be his. I really don’t know whose it is, but it’s awfully good.

00:17:46:10 - 00:17:58:00 Johnny Mandel: It’s five stars.

00:17:58:02 - 00:18:26:15 Johnny Mandel: Well, I recognize the piece is John Lewis is. I think it’s called the Queen’s Fancy. I remember hearing it with the modern jazz, with the quartet. I don’t know what to say about this sounds. I don’t recognize any of the soloists and the interpretation, not the of the orchestra. It tends to make me. It feels European to me, like it was done somewhere, some some time in Europe.

00:18:26:18 - 00:18:45:02 Johnny Mandel: Also, I’m kind of using a economical device, economic divining rod, because I don’t think he could get that large of an orchestra together here. It’s awfully big. I mean, maybe he could, but it would cost somebody a mint. Yeah. And,

00:18:45:04 - 00:19:01:07 Johnny Mandel: I just don’t know quite what to say about this. It’s beautifully handled. As John handles everything, boys, what taste is one thing you can never take away from him?

00:19:01:09 - 00:19:25:01 Johnny Mandel: I’m just not sure of what the net total is after the whole thing is put together and played. I’m kind of. It’s jumbled friggin with the jazz. Never does quite settle and swing on it. And then all of a sudden, you get this very pompous brass figure that, actually is, you know, it sounds like something from,

00:19:25:03 - 00:19:44:13 Johnny Mandel: Well, sounds almost like the beginning of one of the Brandenburg Concertos, or else something out of, the soundtrack of hamlet. It’s hard to say what this is. And why and why it was done. I don’t know, this is something only John knows. Well, all I know is that it was handled beautifully. The way it was done. And it was.

00:19:44:16 - 00:20:00:04 Johnny Mandel: It was played pretty well, too. Which is a good chart. I don’t know, three stars. Okay.

00:20:00:07 - 00:20:11:26 Johnny Mandel: Sounds like Randy Watson to me. Maybe I’m being misled because it’s a waltz. Nobody handles waltzes better than he does for me.

00:20:11:28 - 00:20:20:02 Johnny Mandel: It’s quite a talent.

00:20:20:05 - 00:20:48:18 Johnny Mandel: Well arranged to whoever did it. I know Melba did some things for them on one album, which I haven’t really heard yet. Melba Liston and, that sounded like it might have been Johnny Griffin. Very possibly it’s polished enough to sound like Johnny, which he can sound pretty polished when he wants to. Not positive on that score. sounds like Audrey Solomon.

00:20:48:18 - 00:20:52:12 Johnny Mandel: Very possibly to.

00:20:52:15 - 00:21:18:01 Johnny Mandel: And it really sounds like Randy’s music, whether it’s him or not playing, that’s about as much as I can give you. There. Oh, Four stars. Yeah. Five again. But again. After hearing that twice, I still couldn’t tell you who it is because it doesn’t really have any positive identity. There isn’t a leader there that I can identify.

00:21:18:04 - 00:21:42:22 Johnny Mandel: It sounds like either the kind of a band that many album would have put together for coral. For what? I mean for one of his albums, it sounds a little like man, he’s writing, although below is usually a good standard. It could be her, Pomeroy, his band. I can’t recognize any of the soloists except, the drummer sounds a little bit to me.

00:21:42:22 - 00:22:06:07 Johnny Mandel: Like, okay, we’ll see. Johnson, the piano player sounds a little like Bill Evans to me. Possibly. It’s. It’s awfully clean and awfully good. It could be Dick Katz. Possibly. By the way, is judicious choice of notes as far as, being able to pick his spots between ensembles, something very few piano players can do and which Bill bass he does the best.

00:22:06:10 - 00:22:27:29 Johnny Mandel: Katz is very good at it. I just can’t. It could be Phil Woods playing alto too, but I really can’t put my finger on who this is. It’s well played, pretty well written, not too well recorded. I’d rate it about three and a half. Okay.

00:22:28:01 - 00:22:51:25 Johnny Mandel: Well, I’m baffled again now. this one’s really in the caverns. I can’t I couldn’t hear anything. Except I know it was an awfully good band playing. It was well played, the writing was very good, and the recording was just horrible. I couldn’t pick out who it was for a while. I wasn’t sure if it was one trombone player playing all those things, or a bunch of them, because they.

00:22:51:27 - 00:23:06:21 Johnny Mandel: I guess this echo distorts the sound so much you can’t really get any presence or feeling of individuals on this. I thought I might have heard Maynard Ferguson, valve trombone.