George Russell Blindfold Test [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:15:27 George Russell: Gotta be home.

00:00:16:00 - 00:00:19:12 George Russell: Well, I’m,

00:00:19:15 - 00:00:58:14 George Russell: I’d have to say first and, Well, Leonard, you know, obviously that’s, you got the Shuler composition for the make you conversations, and, it is a piece of music with substance, and, are we on? Yeah, essentially, I’m against commenting on it. Any piece of music, and especially one with substance after the first hearing. Yeah.

00:00:58:16 - 00:01:43:12 George Russell: You know, and, That is in principle, so, I’m, I’m actually in principle against commenting on any music after just hearing it one time, but I can give you my general impressions. Yeah. Your emotional. Yeah. My emotional reactions. I thought it was very interesting in terms of color, instrumental color. I frankly reacted more to it at the times when the quartet was allowed to play with out interruption.

00:01:43:14 - 00:01:57:13 George Russell: Yeah. And, however, that may be because the other parts were not as accessible, as the free swinging. All right. Yeah.

00:01:57:16 - 00:01:59:17 Leonard Feather: Now, I mean, on first hearing.

00:01:59:24 - 00:02:07:22 George Russell: You, on first hearing and.

00:02:07:25 - 00:02:13:17 George Russell: Also, I get.

00:02:13:19 - 00:02:16:26 George Russell: Well.

00:02:16:29 - 00:02:33:22 George Russell: It was the part that I could pat my foot to that, you know, that reach me. Yeah. And yet the other parts, although they were very interesting in terms of color.

00:02:34:04 - 00:02:48:06 George Russell: both harmonic color and instrumental color. it didn’t strike me as particularly profound. You know, in terms of, Berg.

00:02:48:08 - 00:02:53:19 George Russell: Alvin Berger. how about the writing constraints.

00:02:53:21 - 00:02:57:25 Leonard Feather: Or the integration of the strings with the group?

00:02:58:29 - 00:03:27:14 George Russell: there were parts when I thought it was, you know, really ingenious. And that was during the parts, the non jazz parts. But in the jazz parts, I thought Collomb it was a little, bit, but the composer probably intended sensitive pieces conversations for there to be. It is a conversation between the classical strings and the NM nö and the Mama and Jazz Quartet in jazz, you know.

00:03:27:14 - 00:03:41:13 George Russell: But, so purism. a little bit like, an atonal De Rosa’s,

00:03:42:05 - 00:03:44:06 Leonard Feather: going.

00:03:44:09 - 00:03:44:24 Unknown Speaker: Right.

00:03:44:26 - 00:04:09:12 George Russell: And and and I’d have to use your quote about the third stream and which I think is excellent. And you just mentioned that if you put. Two precious stones on a bracelet, a ruby and, pearl. Yeah. They don’t necessarily for all, form a third jewel. Yeah. That’s that’s my I guess.

00:04:09:12 - 00:04:12:06 Leonard Feather: You pass already because this one here, you can’t read it.

00:04:12:10 - 00:04:17:23 George Russell: You. I have too much respect for the composer and the quartet to write it.

00:04:18:00 - 00:04:20:27 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I really.

00:04:21:00 - 00:04:34:27 George Russell: Ellington’s sense of musical buffoonery is incomparable. you can quote me on that. for you.

00:04:35:00 - 00:04:39:12 George Russell: The way he.

00:04:39:14 - 00:04:46:19 George Russell: Manages to.

00:04:46:27 - 00:05:03:21 George Russell: inject wit and humor. You know, into music and still make it valid musically is, one of his great, great talents.

00:05:03:23 - 00:05:05:00 Leonard Feather: Do you have any feelings?

00:05:05:11 - 00:05:26:10 George Russell: And I think he was turning on the violin. His composer, his piano was marvelous. I love the Renaissance thing. And I like the little vamp. that started the piece. and I like the Lawrence Brown, sound of, like, Lawrence Brown coming. Hello.

00:05:26:10 - 00:05:30:25 George Russell: How are you?

00:05:34:13 - 00:06:04:05 George Russell: I like, I like it, I like the piece in my hands. I never got such a rise out of piece of music for a long time. And only Ellington could probably, do it and still sway, you know. Yeah. Okay. And I’d never give Ellington under. What is it, five stars, never under. Oh, okay. On anything. Yeah.

00:06:04:07 - 00:06:17:07 George Russell: I like the trumpet player sound. I wouldn’t know. Who it was. The arrangement was very professional.

00:06:22:11 - 00:06:30:13 George Russell: clever.

00:06:30:15 - 00:06:34:21 Leonard Feather: But, the treatment of that thing compared with Ellington.

00:06:35:21 - 00:06:39:24 George Russell: oh, is,

00:06:39:27 - 00:07:20:25 George Russell: There would be no comparison. First of all, The soloist with Ellington seemed to understand the the nature of, Ellington’s humor. And there’s that rapport between soloist and leader without, like, doing that you don’t have. So the soloist fell into the humorous thing on the Ellington thing. And this is that’s just, a professional treatment of, sound like a studio band, professional treatment of, a, an old standard of some kind.

00:07:23:11 - 00:07:35:02 George Russell: sounds. Yeah. Rather flat. Mean. Yeah. Just flat. Could be wrong.

00:07:35:05 - 00:07:56:23 George Russell: What would you give to. Yeah. No. the arrangement was a hybrid of Ellington and Basie. It was.

00:07:56:26 - 00:08:17:07 George Russell: Not a terribly, distinctive arrangement. I was impressed with the, trombone player’s range and, sound and facility.

00:08:17:09 - 00:08:18:01 George Russell: That’s about all.

00:08:18:01 - 00:08:30:20 George Russell: I have to say. okay. You know, you you read,

00:08:32:27 - 00:08:34:03 George Russell: it’s Quincy Jones.

00:08:34:25 - 00:08:36:20 George Russell: imagine as a.

00:08:36:23 - 00:08:37:22 Leonard Feather: Proud.

00:08:39:07 - 00:08:48:02 George Russell: well, adult called me business arrangement. So.

00:08:48:04 - 00:08:51:26 George Russell: What’s a, What is it? One, two, three and.

00:08:51:26 - 00:08:53:21 Leonard Feather: Four is two is a three is good.

00:08:53:21 - 00:09:00:05 George Russell: Four is very good, and five is exceptional. What’s fair to.

00:09:00:08 - 00:09:51:16 George Russell: Yeah, yeah, it’s a wonderful piece of writing. it’s jazz, piece for brass on that Columbia album, which I understand is now out of their catalog. No kidding. And, which is, ridiculous. brass album. I like especially the fugue at the end and, I think J.J. betrays and the piece is his love for Hindemith, especially Matthias.

00:09:51:19 - 00:10:03:16 George Russell: And it’s one of my favorites.

00:10:05:10 - 00:10:10:13 George Russell: if you want to comment on any of the other individuals in.

00:10:10:25 - 00:10:18:10 George Russell: Miles played on it. Oh, Michael. Steve.

00:10:18:13 - 00:10:26:24 George Russell: Would you like the overall format?

00:10:26:26 - 00:10:44:23 George Russell: I like to, especially the brass to the fugue at the end. If I remember the piece now correctly. There were some parts of it that.

00:10:44:25 - 00:10:54:05 George Russell: If I were, and I do remember, there were parts of it that didn’t strike me as keenly as that fugue thing at the end.

00:10:54:05 - 00:11:00:13 George Russell: And I, but,

00:11:00:15 - 00:11:07:20 George Russell: I thought in general, very wonderful piece of music that.

00:11:07:23 - 00:11:28:24 George Russell: I’d rated for stars. I’ll have to take a drink before I die. But,

00:11:28:26 - 00:11:31:00 George Russell: You know, composition.

00:11:31:02 - 00:11:45:19 George Russell: No, but I get images of when I listen to the music of someone. Standing in front of a huge stage with.

00:11:45:22 - 00:11:49:28 George Russell: His shadow reflected on the curtain and saying. This is an orchestra.

00:11:53:16 - 00:11:56:22 George Russell: And.

00:11:56:24 - 00:12:00:10 George Russell: But,

00:12:00:13 - 00:12:51:08 George Russell: If it has any connection to do with that particular orchestra, I think that, its best days were when, Mulligan came into the band and wrote Youngblood and Bill home and wrote Theme and Variations and, Some of some other things that were done. I can’t think of them offhand. Theme and variations and. Yeah, yeah.

00:12:51:10 - 00:12:54:16 George Russell: It was was it was Sarah Holman.

00:12:54:18 - 00:12:59:29 Leonard Feather: You may or may not have been either.

00:13:00:04 - 00:13:06:07 George Russell: But I mean, that’s off the record. You got the tape cut back.

00:13:06:20 - 00:13:12:01 George Russell: whoever it was.

00:13:12:03 - 00:13:16:25 George Russell: Well, I would,

00:13:16:28 - 00:13:53:21 George Russell: Rate it two stars for, Orchestral technique. You know, being able to, always respect it, even though it’s not a lot of music, but I respect just being able to handle, an orchestra of that size and produce that kind of sound and, you know, moving textures. So, Well, musically, it it may, be an embellishment of,

00:13:53:23 - 00:14:15:20 George Russell: Modern kind of theme. you could make and have ten and 15 brass and anything else sound impressive. It’s still, it takes technique to handle that many instruments. Yeah. You know, technique.

00:14:15:22 - 00:14:19:08 George Russell: Do you feel it was overwritten?

00:14:19:10 - 00:14:35:19 George Russell: It was overwritten because the theme didn’t demand. actually, that kind of the theme wasn’t, profound enough to demand that kind of, orchestra, actually, you know.

00:14:35:21 - 00:14:38:02 George Russell: No particular comment on the telephone.

00:14:38:05 - 00:14:39:28 George Russell: I didn’t care for the tenor player.

00:14:44:00 - 00:14:50:20 George Russell: Okay. That’s a.

00:14:52:22 - 00:15:09:07 George Russell: I think the most significant, thing that’s happened in jazz recently is Ornette Coleman.

00:15:09:09 - 00:15:18:11 George Russell: And, I think.

00:15:18:13 - 00:15:30:07 George Russell: That would probably be spending the next few years trying to.

00:15:30:10 - 00:15:44:17 George Russell: Not trying, but we’ll be spending the next few years. Realizing the depth of this. Artistic contribution, you know, to jazz.

00:15:44:19 - 00:15:57:18 Speaker 7 This you think conglomeration. And for the respect to the blues, the blues er and so forth. And the shouting singers. give it a couple of stars.

00:15:57:20 - 00:16:02:03 Leonard Feather: Yeah. I mean, no, no real emotional message for you.

00:16:02:05 - 00:16:09:12 Speaker 7 Well, I haven’t been. It’s not my, cup of tea, you know.

00:16:09:26 - 00:16:14:21 George Russell: any comment on the accompaniment?

00:16:14:23 - 00:16:47:14 Speaker 7 Five stars. Ten stars is. Yeah. This is, everything is right on this. Everything. The recording is perfect. The vibe. Pick up is perfect, as far as you know, being technical, all the soloists presence and the the the theme is, is beautiful and it’s cut so clean and that it’s beautiful and and Milt is my daddy. and the bass, hats off to that bass that I am sure it was, Percy who did a beautiful job.

00:16:47:17 - 00:16:48:09 Speaker 7 Am I right, man?

00:16:48:09 - 00:16:51:18 Leonard Feather: I hope we not through talking. So I got wait to get through.

00:16:51:21 - 00:17:00:18 Speaker 7 Oh, God. Well, a big one like the piano. Well, let’s be tactful. I won’t mention the piano then. How’s that? That do that.

00:17:00:21 - 00:17:07:27 Leonard Feather: Whatever you want. no. Right. You said nothing to me.

00:17:07:29 - 00:17:29:11 Speaker 7 Now, if you tell me, is no. Yeah. Number one for an on the spot, as you would, you call it that land on the spot recording. Wonderful. And it’s the first time. First time that, I very seldom hears stereo when I’m listening to stereo, if you know what I mean. It’s, I can be conscious of the two.

00:17:29:14 - 00:17:46:01 Speaker 7 It’s just that I’ve listened to two speakers like this called stereo, same amp and so forth, you know, two amps rather with a stereo hookup. And I never I used to shake my head. No, because it never came out that way. But this thing that they, they had a good pickup. The cap is a capital, by the way.

00:17:46:03 - 00:18:08:08 Speaker 7 I’ll tell you through. Oh, okay. All right, whoever it is, hats off to them. And George Shearing, in my estimation, has always been. And is the master of smart, polite jazz. And they. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with that? I I’ve admired them for it, you know that when I’ve, when I was with them, I had, I got a lot through George.

00:18:08:08 - 00:18:32:17 Speaker 7 George gave me a lot of, you know, what can I say? Some taste. He gave me taste, things like that. And it’s my. That’s my cup of tea. the waltz idea. It cannot be funky if it if it’s in a waltz form. And this was very, I can’t, I can’t say cute. That’s, no good, but it’s very polite.

00:18:32:17 - 00:18:55:08 Speaker 7 It’s very, the shearing way is always clean, and, The thing about it is, this is the first record I heard, including when I was with him, the first record I’ve heard that I like, I like, I really like, I like it very much. And, I didn’t know it was George until he, you know, he came in with his identification of the black cord.

00:18:55:11 - 00:19:21:08 Speaker 7 Yeah. And, it’s a cute thing that the the, tune itself is very, very nice. Yeah. And, I’m glad to see that he’s letting the drums use cymbals. Now, yeah. And, and yet he knows, just, like, not too much. The drums are very tasty. Very tasty drums. the vibraphone guitar bits were very good.

00:19:21:11 - 00:19:29:17 Speaker 7 Did a good job. I think that’s it. How many? How many? I’m gonna get five. Yeah.

00:19:29:20 - 00:19:36:24 Leonard Feather: Oh, no. You wanted to have some? Was the the vibraphonist on the record you thought was Milt Jackson? Was was Len Winchester.

00:19:36:26 - 00:19:59:02 Speaker 7 Len Winchester, exclamation point, exclamation point. without being too prejudiced, I know Liam, and and he’s the sweetest guy you ever wanted to meet. And, gee, a policeman, too. That’s really. And, I’m telling you, he’s, he surprised me, you know, and I, as soon as Leonard tell me who it was, I got chills, I really did.

00:19:59:07 - 00:20:20:14 Speaker 7 I was so, you know, not Milt’s always been my idol. And I’m sure that Len feels the same way. And I also want to say that Victor Feldman sounds great to. And one what he did out there. It was good to see that the West Coast kind of showed us East coasters at the that they, they, they like our sounds out here.

00:20:20:16 - 00:20:45:25 Speaker 7 Yeah. That’s right. That’s it.

00:21:00:24 - 00:21:19:08 George Russell: Very.

00:21:19:11 - 00:21:26:10 George Russell: Good.

00:21:26:13 - 00:21:51:28 George Russell: Oh.

00:21:52:00 - 00:22:58:22 George Russell: Do.

00:22:58:24 - 00:23:01:26 George Russell: Do whatever.

00:23:04:00 - 00:23:11:14 Leonard Feather: What was the first take that happened? Afternoon. What was it? The first? No. The rest of things. Yeah, I think rather than. What was the next one?

00:23:11:16 - 00:23:26:04 Unknown Speaker: Great. So there was a next year, I think Rhode Island was before that. And, I was trying to, to, fix the chronology of these things in my mind, you know. Yeah.

00:23:26:07 - 00:23:36:21 Leonard Feather: Well, anyhow, there was certainly, nothing of any importance in between Newport and the two New York ones, that is, rather than a great South Bay, as far as I remember.

00:23:36:23 - 00:23:38:25 Unknown Speaker: You know, Franklin.

00:23:38:27 - 00:23:52:15 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I know, oh, yeah. Nice story. But, because this year it’s an out of all proportion, there’s, hardly a weekend left without so-called or somewhere.

00:23:52:17 - 00:24:00:15 Unknown Speaker: So it wouldn’t surprise me that, before the season begins, that there would be some weekends where there are two festivals.

00:24:00:17 - 00:24:03:20 Leonard Feather: Oh, there is one already that Boston has the same weekend as Randall’s Island.

00:24:03:25 - 00:24:23:13 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. Well, that was that was a same way to, three years. The first mainland festival. Oh, yeah. Yeah. and there was one in Lynn in landmass. Yeah. And, how about letting us fix the year that was there? There’s one in Lynn that’s right outside of Boston.

00:24:23:15 - 00:24:25:23 Leonard Feather: And, was that a real festival in Lynn?

00:24:25:28 - 00:24:38:28 Unknown Speaker: Well, it was the same person. Oh, they had their own land. They they shuttled back and forth. Between here and put that. Charly Caruso.

00:24:39:03 - 00:24:46:28 George Russell: And, red relevant. Levy. Realty. Wilmington.

00:24:47:00 - 00:25:01:23 Unknown Speaker: And they, I remember well, now there they, one day got rained out the last day, it was during the newspaper strike in Boston, which, gotten a real blow and, really hurt their business. And,

00:25:01:25 - 00:25:05:03 Leonard Feather: Then they, But did they lose money?

00:25:05:05 - 00:25:15:05 Unknown Speaker: They made very little. Yeah. obviously, because they didn’t, they didn’t do one last year. That’s a year before last.

00:25:15:08 - 00:25:22:21 Leonard Feather:

1. It could have been. Yeah. No, I think there already been three rounds, I don’t remember, I think it was probably 56.

00:25:22:23 - 00:25:32:22 George Russell: All right. Well, I think so.

00:25:34:06 - 00:25:35:16 Leonard Feather: What happened. That’s another thing we have.

00:25:35:27 - 00:25:37:23 Unknown Speaker: so listen somebody.

00:25:37:23 - 00:25:41:00 Leonard Feather: But how much of a weather problem has that been?

00:25:41:15 - 00:26:06:18 Unknown Speaker: I remember this year here. the the the Lynn Festival. It rained out on a Sunday. So at the last, the last minute. And I’m telling you, they didn’t, they didn’t anticipate this, problem for arranging for wedding one days notice. They hired the Boston Arena, which is a commuting distance, and put the festival on in there by special reason, with the mayor.

00:26:06:20 - 00:26:10:15 Unknown Speaker: But, and Newport is, you know, we go in rain or shine and.

00:26:10:15 - 00:26:11:13 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:26:11:27 - 00:26:24:02 Unknown Speaker: the artist, performed, under a shelter, so, you know, but, I don’t know if you were there one year, I don’t know, but yeah, that was the.

00:26:24:05 - 00:26:25:06 Leonard Feather: Song In the Rain.

00:26:25:09 - 00:26:35:02 Unknown Speaker: That’s right. But one year, one whole evening was in the rain. I remember Eddie kind of made a a wise remark. Columbia was recording. They recorded that performance in Columbia, and he call it jazz underwater.

00:26:35:04 - 00:26:35:22 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:26:35:24 - 00:26:36:10 Unknown Speaker: Were you there?

00:26:36:14 - 00:26:37:06 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I think I was there.

00:26:37:06 - 00:26:43:05 Unknown Speaker: Well, that whole night there, 3000 people stood there in the rain who had drenched 3000 people. So that.

00:26:43:07 - 00:26:44:23 Leonard Feather: Had to have some kind of rain insurance and.

00:26:44:23 - 00:27:10:06 Unknown Speaker: You know, arrangements you didn’t know. Yeah. We don’t have any insurance because we find it impractical. You have to, have so much, waterfall, you know, it has to be measured so much. Yeah. Before you can claim any, any, any benefits. And then more important than the rain itself is the weather forecast. If you have a bum weather forecast, doesn’t make any real reason that the business was hurt.

00:27:10:07 - 00:27:22:13 Unknown Speaker: It hurt anyway. That’s true because much of our business is within commuting distance. Even though we have a great event sale. See, our event sale is, Oh, 50%.

00:27:22:15 - 00:27:22:29 Leonard Feather: Really?

00:27:23:14 - 00:27:23:24 Unknown Speaker: yeah.

00:27:23:24 - 00:27:27:21 Leonard Feather: That’s interesting. On any given night.

00:27:27:24 - 00:27:28:11 Unknown Speaker: Yeah.

00:27:28:13 - 00:27:34:19 Leonard Feather: He sold more than you’re talking about. Oh, 50% of the dollars or all the tickets.

00:27:35:16 - 00:27:36:06 Unknown Speaker: tickets?

00:27:36:09 - 00:27:45:03 Leonard Feather: Yeah. Well, I would be more than 50% of the dollars. Probably was probably the expensive seats to sell out of about. Or is it always the.

00:27:45:05 - 00:27:48:23 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.

00:27:48:26 - 00:27:54:23 Leonard Feather: What is the actual, seating capacity? Right. Right now of, of.

00:27:54:25 - 00:28:04:27 Unknown Speaker: Newport 12,000 and Newport. We plan 12,000 at Fenway Park. We pay around 15,000. in French, we plant 6000.

00:28:05:00 - 00:28:06:02 Leonard Feather: That’s going to be on new grounds this.

00:28:06:02 - 00:28:13:11 Unknown Speaker: Year, new ground this year. And the only, the golf course. Oh, really? Yeah. And to run.

00:28:13:13 - 00:28:15:01 Leonard Feather: The hotel is that.

00:28:15:03 - 00:28:30:12 Unknown Speaker: What you remember? it’s right in there. Remember the golf pro that we use for a dressing room in back of the stage of the, of the, Oh, yeah. Well, we’re going to have the, the seating arrangement right in front of that on the golf course.

00:28:30:15 - 00:28:31:04 Leonard Feather: I’ll just be on.

00:28:31:11 - 00:28:34:08 Unknown Speaker: So we’ll use that house for the, the dressing room again.

00:28:34:15 - 00:28:39:01 George Russell: I say. In Toronto.

00:28:39:17 - 00:28:41:29 Unknown Speaker: I think we played around 12,000 seats.

00:28:42:02 - 00:28:45:01 Leonard Feather: Well, that’s for those. Those Toronto.

00:28:45:01 - 00:28:51:25 Unknown Speaker: Toronto four days. Yeah, yeah. Thursday, Friday, seven. Wednesday Thursday Friday, Saturday.

00:28:51:25 - 00:28:52:18 Leonard Feather: I think that’s right.

00:28:52:20 - 00:28:54:06 Unknown Speaker: Yeah.

00:28:54:08 - 00:28:56:07 Leonard Feather: What is the first big thing I do want to know.

00:28:56:10 - 00:29:01:15 Unknown Speaker: This is the first big Canadian.

00:29:01:17 - 00:29:08:13 Leonard Feather: And if you don’t think it’s going to reach the stage now overlapping or taking away from one another business to the mall.

00:29:08:16 - 00:29:40:25 Unknown Speaker: Well, and there is some concern in Newport, this year because we’re having a festival in Boston, but, I don’t think it’s going to matter very much. We had an amusing call the other day from a woman in Chicago, and she was making plans to come to Newport, and, and during the conversation, I asked her, I said, you know, there’s a festival in Chicago, knowing full well that, wouldn’t be taking any business away from Newport, that from her inquiry, you know, she said, oh, yes, but she says, I have to come to this one.

00:29:40:25 - 00:29:54:12 Unknown Speaker: My son, is at Saint Mark’s, and, we’re going to Europe this summer, as a matter of fact. And he doesn’t care any about anything else except going to Newport. And we have to go. The whole thing. It’s it’s a tradition. Is he. Yeah.

00:29:54:12 - 00:29:55:11 Leonard Feather: That’s right, that’s right.

00:29:55:11 - 00:30:23:12 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. He doesn’t care about going too far to the to the, to the, the, festival and, and, Chicago and gear up. We have some, we have some patrons who go to them. I had a letter the other day from a guy who couldn’t get any information from Newport about, the other festivals, and the letter was forwarded to me, and he wanted to make arrangements to go see some, Pennsylvania, some funny little town, Concord town or something like that.

00:30:23:14 - 00:30:26:17 Unknown Speaker: And, he’s going to be.

00:30:26:19 - 00:30:27:28 Leonard Feather: I guess there will be a certain amount.

00:30:27:28 - 00:30:29:19 Unknown Speaker: Of that. Yeah.

00:30:29:21 - 00:30:38:17 Leonard Feather: Do you do you have you had a how long has it been since you started to get inquiries and people wanting to know how to put on festivals and asking for advice and so forth.

00:30:38:19 - 00:30:40:24 Unknown Speaker: Right after the first year? Really? Yeah.

00:30:40:27 - 00:30:43:29 Leonard Feather: There been any funny calls of any particular, just silly ones.

00:30:43:29 - 00:30:50:17 Unknown Speaker: But naive people. Yeah. Think that, and,

00:30:50:19 - 00:30:53:22 Leonard Feather: Think people thought they could get Louis Armstrong $500 and things like that.

00:30:53:24 - 00:31:16:15 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. They’re, they’re, they’re, they’re I can’t think of the details now, but, that sounds like it. That makes a very good story. They they don’t believe they they they they don’t understand what it’s all about. They, they they are confused, with, with this business of jazz as, you can compare to some other forms of show business for commercial reasons.

00:31:16:17 - 00:31:30:19 Unknown Speaker: They know that if you’ve got, Judy Garland or something like that, they’re familiar with the fact that she gets a lot of money, you know, and, they’re concerned with the, for instance, raising a, running a festival to raise, a charity fund.

00:31:30:21 - 00:31:31:11 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:31:31:14 - 00:31:53:24 Unknown Speaker: They think that, there’s so many people who come to a jazz festival. Let’s run one of those things. Instead of hiring Judy Garland. Yeah, you know it because it it obviously costs nothing. They have all these people there, you know, these artists and, And Judy Garland. I might be more successful for them, but, yeah. And, they’re not professional people.

00:31:53:24 - 00:32:15:03 Unknown Speaker: They’re very naive. They they don’t know somebody covers up the other day, but, and, wanting to put on the hand of Jackson for a symphony hall concert. We had just presented her. Yeah. And they seemed it, actually, one of the master was setting up competition for us. you know, am I going to tell you everything that I know?

00:32:15:06 - 00:32:15:27 Leonard Feather: Yeah. That’s right.

00:32:16:04 - 00:32:32:05 Unknown Speaker: But, you can’t, turn them down like that. You have to explain to them that, it is a precarious business, and you have to know what you’re doing, and they have to know how to buy. And, they’re dealing with agents who sometimes are unscrupulous and,

00:32:32:07 - 00:32:34:21 Leonard Feather: Well, the agents are bound to take advantage of this, of course.

00:32:34:24 - 00:32:43:17 Unknown Speaker: Because as soon as they as soon as they knock one of these prospects off, there’s another one waiting. You never know. Yeah, you never know. There’s no report on this.

00:32:44:01 - 00:32:52:03 Leonard Feather: so I guess you could say with authority that Newport’s influence on the development of other festivals has been very decisive since you were.

00:32:52:05 - 00:32:59:22 Unknown Speaker: Oh, there is no doubt about it. There’s no doubt about it, because, it has received so much attention.

00:32:59:25 - 00:33:15:27 Leonard Feather: How much of the interest has been altruistic? I mean, the kind of people that want to do it just for the love of the music, as opposed to the proportion of doing it for strictly moneymaking purposes. Is it possible to get any kind of division?

00:33:15:29 - 00:33:29:12 Unknown Speaker: I don’t know, anytime you look into a situation where jazz, there’s jazz. It seems that, there’s, there’s more, there there appears to be more legitimacy because people are in it. There are some people in it that they dig it, you.

00:33:29:12 - 00:33:30:19 Leonard Feather: Know, that they get from both.

00:33:30:19 - 00:33:32:26 Unknown Speaker: Of them from here on in the money. Yeah, yeah.

00:33:33:02 - 00:33:36:12 Leonard Feather: Or that’s probably why all of a sudden it was some extent.

00:33:36:14 - 00:33:49:07 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true, that’s true. But it’s more so than, it’s more so in jazz than it is in the other fields, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The, in the other fields, they won’t even know they’re artists. Yeah. And care less.

00:33:49:09 - 00:33:51:09 Leonard Feather: Yeah. I mean they tend to be familiar with the things.

00:33:51:09 - 00:33:56:22 George Russell: Of the fans themselves. Even if you heard it on a business basis.

00:33:56:25 - 00:34:21:08 Unknown Speaker: And of course, there there’s the other extreme, where at? At Newport, we have people who, the, the, the, the prime forces who, who are not familiar with, with, materials that are working with the Lords. You know, they’re not, well, they were they have become very well acquainted, but listening. But the, at the start up where they knew from nothing about it.

00:34:21:13 - 00:34:23:26 Leonard Feather: No, they were very mildly concerned.

00:34:23:29 - 00:34:25:18 Unknown Speaker: That’s right.

00:34:25:21 - 00:34:30:12 Leonard Feather: Except that, of course, they like to go to went to George’s course. Didn’t see.

00:34:30:15 - 00:34:32:26 Unknown Speaker: Oh, yes. But that all happened after the Newport Jazz Festival.

00:34:32:29 - 00:34:38:18 George Russell: Although it was before. No like of the fact that you were there before it was.

00:34:38:18 - 00:34:45:17 Leonard Feather: You must have had some interest at the time. Well, in fact, I have that in the story is, you know, to some extent.

00:34:45:22 - 00:34:47:09 Unknown Speaker: Well, yes, I suppose so, yeah.

00:34:47:15 - 00:34:52:06 Leonard Feather: Oh, on the other side, you know, it’s so interesting which is plugged with that.

00:34:53:07 - 00:34:58:02 Unknown Speaker: they might be able to I might be able to identify a clarinet solo by Benny Goodman, but that’s just about as far.

00:34:58:07 - 00:35:00:20 Leonard Feather: Yeah. You know.

00:35:00:22 - 00:35:03:20 Unknown Speaker: And I’m just saying as a fact that as a criticism, you know.

00:35:03:20 - 00:35:07:10 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I see what you mean. You know. Well, see them though. So yeah I know. Yeah.

00:35:07:10 - 00:35:12:05 Unknown Speaker: That’s that’s right, that’s right. Sure.

00:35:12:07 - 00:35:38:25 Unknown Speaker: As a matter of fact, he, he had a genuine interest in that, music of, of that period. He, in the bank, in fact, began by doing this. And I think he buys all the Benny Goodman records. I myself cigarets. Hey, I’ve got something I didn’t realize you smoked.

00:35:38:27 - 00:35:46:12 Leonard Feather: And any.

00:35:46:14 - 00:36:00:12 Leonard Feather: Do you have any recollection of what, if any, open air jazz? That was before new. Because the only thing I can recall is that they had a thing in Wilkes-Barre in 1951 called a jazz festival. Imagine a month or a few little odds and ends.

00:36:00:12 - 00:36:13:05 Unknown Speaker: Well, look, we had, jazz at the, at the Boston Arts Festival every several. Yeah. That’s it, I do it. That’s on the great in the Boston Common every year.

00:36:13:12 - 00:36:14:14 Leonard Feather: Oh I see.

00:36:14:16 - 00:36:22:23 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. I don’t remember. What year was your development. Yes. Yeah, yeah. We put on the jazz night. And,

00:36:22:25 - 00:36:31:16 Leonard Feather: I guess I should find out what the first year was with that. Yeah. Because that would be the beginning of George’s association with open air jazz, which is this is, the story that.

00:36:31:22 - 00:36:39:22 Unknown Speaker: He, I wish I had, when I was in Boston, I could, if he would ask me those questions in particular, I couldn’t look it up. That would have, I think. Yeah, well, I.

00:36:39:22 - 00:36:41:12 Leonard Feather: Can I can check that and add it to.

00:36:41:12 - 00:36:43:12 Unknown Speaker: The story later. Yeah.

00:36:43:14 - 00:36:46:17 Leonard Feather: But, what it boils down to is the, the whole, the everything.

00:36:46:17 - 00:36:50:09 Unknown Speaker: Now, it’s very close, though, you know, that’s why maybe two years before.

00:36:50:11 - 00:36:53:10 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I seem to have it. I got a ten year old P jazz at the Boston.

00:36:53:12 - 00:36:57:03 Unknown Speaker: That’s right, that’s right. It was on story of a Little boy. That’s right.

00:36:57:05 - 00:37:19:17 Leonard Feather: Yeah, yeah. About the, two maybe. Yeah. Festival 54. All right. But there wasn’t too much of that kind of thing in the open there. And there wasn’t anything in California weather. Very well could have been, you know. Well, the climate was always right for I don’t think the concept of jazz being done under those conditions was compatible with people’s general idea of how jazz should be played.

00:37:19:26 - 00:37:47:25 Unknown Speaker: Exactly. And, you know, and that’s right. And it still isn’t really. I mean, I thought it was very amusing two years ago. The two years ago, year ago, I was asked to, participate in a panel of judges at Princeton at the School of Architecture. They had a project that year, the graduating students and, the problem they were given is, was to re rehabilitate a certain part of Newport, a given part of Newport.

00:37:47:28 - 00:38:09:27 Unknown Speaker: And they were given given specific instructions about what, what was needed, say, the streets that they were to and and so forth. And, they do a, a big study on that sort of thing and, a preliminary study and, they were aware that the jazz festival was a very important function. And during the year.

00:38:10:00 - 00:38:36:17 Unknown Speaker: So one of the specific, things in the problem was to make an area which would be a civic center and, to accommodate first the jazz festival because it was the biggest thing. And then other, things actually, what would be good for, a jazz festival would be good for the presentation of, opera, classical music, you know, theatrical productions, dancing.

00:38:36:20 - 00:39:20:11 Unknown Speaker: So there were 15 students and, who, were involved in this project, and they all had different solutions. They worked for three months on this thing. They made three field trips there, spent a lot of time, and they presented their, their models and, sketches and so forth. Well, the, the night, banquet, prior to the judging, I, was, when I talked to, the leader of this program, I was interested to know if there are any students, who, were jazz fans, and, he said yes, there were two of them.

00:39:20:14 - 00:39:39:17 Unknown Speaker: So I tried to find out if, from him, if, there was anything significant about their approach to this thing and, he was, rather vague about it, but, the next day, I found out why they had the least interesting solutions to the problem, if anybody else. Because, first of all, they were study.

00:39:39:17 - 00:40:07:15 Unknown Speaker: They were snobbish about the whole thing. One guy, knowing that I was, in the audience, solicited me by saying, now, we all know that, jazz can be played outdoors, number one. And in 2 to 15,000 people, and then, so he says, that, keeping this in mind, and I did this and so forth, and he showed really that he ignored completely the requirements.

00:40:07:17 - 00:40:37:25 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. The that the, the problem was to accommodate 15,000 people, you know, and, the other guy had some other things similar to that. And, they had fantastic things like building, little clubs on the waterfront, one which would be underwater and the daylight would, diffuse, some kind of scheme or at the nighttime, the special lights would be, diffused through the water into the club and all kinds of things like.

00:40:38:01 - 00:40:47:18 Leonard Feather: listening. And I could make that, Newport has done a great deal to break down that kind of resistance to the concept of playing jazz for a mass audience and in the open, and the conditions that people don’t think of that.

00:40:48:07 - 00:40:58:19 Unknown Speaker: that’s right. And it’s been a problem, as you know, for with the sound one thing. Yeah, we’ve been, we’ve, we’ve had a, we’ve been experimenting with that. Yeah. We had some really good last year. We hope to have something better.

00:40:58:21 - 00:40:59:26 Leonard Feather: Yeah. I think it’s been improving.

00:40:59:29 - 00:41:32:22 Unknown Speaker: Now, in connection with that, you know, there is a committee, established down there of, Rhode Island people, Providence and Newport that is not necessarily connected with the festival, although Louis Lawlor, the president to, do, research on a, a site like this, they, they have found a place already. I think they have a meeting Tuesday again, for, etc., a music center.

00:41:32:24 - 00:41:56:17 Unknown Speaker: And of course, the jazz festival would be the most important, participating group in there. But they want to encourage all kinds of music functions. It’d be very important. It’s very important to the economy of Newport. You know, and, because it brings a lot of people who and, it’s important to the whole state of Rhode Island because they, they received a lot of recognition of the kind of it.

00:41:56:19 - 00:42:13:26 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. That’s right. The place is ideal, actually, because as we know it now, it’s a it’s a handicapped festival. it’s everything is tough. This is tough to get a room. It’s tough to get something to eat. And in spite of that, there’s this whole atmosphere is, is a challenge. And, if you overcome that, you have a boat.

00:42:13:26 - 00:42:15:10 Leonard Feather: That’s right. That’s been overcome.

00:42:15:14 - 00:42:36:08 Unknown Speaker: Battle. And, as this thing, moves on, the city becomes more interested. They they, they see it not as a, fly by night operation. And investors will eventually, do something to, make the city more attractive for people to come in. Yeah.

00:42:36:11 - 00:42:41:01 Leonard Feather: Can you give me any kind of a figure as to how much additional business was brought into the trades?

00:42:41:01 - 00:42:55:00 Unknown Speaker: People in the Chamber of Commerce, last year released the figure of, million dollars spent during that week. The festival around.

00:42:55:00 - 00:42:59:28 Leonard Feather: Newport. I’m just being aware of that. Would make other chambers of commerce very much.

00:43:00:03 - 00:43:09:20 Unknown Speaker: Very much more they have than they have. and I understand that in Chicago, the, this year, the.