Duke Ellington Interview & Blindfold Test–Leonard Feather’s Advice–“The Encyclopedia of Jazz [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:23 Leonard Feather: You. Or other animals?

00:00:09:25 - 00:00:11:00 Duke Ellington: Right.

00:00:11:02 - 00:00:13:13 Leonard Feather: All right. Well, by that, maybe we should go back a bit.

00:00:13:14 - 00:00:20:08 Leonard Feather: You must have known about the new developments before then. You must have heard about your style.

00:00:20:10 - 00:00:30:18 Leonard Feather: Away from new. I mean, I don’t think everything actually happened in New York. That’s another thing I think a lot of people with a lot of accents in place of everything happening admit this, but only it was that specifically you.

00:00:30:20 - 00:00:41:00 Duke Ellington: Know, because I heard I heard a car recently and that was very real. Well, like the crime scene.

00:00:41:02 - 00:00:42:21 Leonard Feather: But did you play the kind of changes and.

00:00:42:26 - 00:00:54:12 Duke Ellington: And I did because we were going around a PR plan, Saint Louis preparing like we’re probably and do drugs. A and I recall Rick Howard and,

00:00:54:14 - 00:01:03:19 Leonard Feather: Duke Brooks. Oh, is that Dudley? No, I still remember he was he wrote a couple of things of any record or something.

00:01:03:21 - 00:01:07:20 Duke Ellington: I maybe that’s not a good call. He was going to Duke and read. All right.

00:01:07:23 - 00:01:12:23 Leonard Feather: Now, I mean music, but he was a lot of, you know.

00:01:12:26 - 00:01:15:10 Duke Ellington: And my best bet was to have a trial again at.

00:01:15:13 - 00:01:16:04 Leonard Feather: In Saint Louis.

00:01:16:10 - 00:01:25:02 Duke Ellington: And I used to play like Benny Goodman Sextet. He was always showing me things was in play.

00:01:25:04 - 00:01:26:28 Leonard Feather: Or maybe Charlie Christian was, and everyone’s.

00:01:26:28 - 00:01:29:28 Duke Ellington: Around that. I think he was the one that started own business.

00:01:30:03 - 00:01:31:28 Leonard Feather: The whole thing.

00:01:32:01 - 00:01:53:26 Duke Ellington: I mean, you know, not time, but I mean, he was the grandson from there, cause I know buddy. In his last name, he used to play next time when it when there’s no bands as they lose everybody’s business to buddy as he used to play so much talent. And he was from Kansas City.

00:01:53:29 - 00:01:55:05 Leonard Feather: I mean, that pal.

00:01:55:08 - 00:02:00:12 Duke Ellington: Know a very comic man and buddy, I did that. Same with Amazon.

00:02:00:14 - 00:02:01:19 Leonard Feather: Oh yes, I think that’s right.

00:02:01:19 - 00:02:28:04 Duke Ellington: And TV and and stuff. And I’m in Oklahoma and I was good time. I used to be a real fast and like, and I was a boy from, Oklahoma. I used to play with buddy and play with us, and it was Miles Pruitt. The I mark buddy and heard my. But they I learned Charlie. Kristen.

00:02:28:06 - 00:02:51:24 Duke Ellington: Yeah. And it was a buddy played with us. He played like, Point blank Kansas City blues. That kind of thing. But he had worked with Miles through it. And I don’t like Charlie Parker because he, he used for whatever his name was. Charlie. Yeah, we all used to waiting in.

00:02:51:26 - 00:03:10:10 Leonard Feather: Well, a lot of people probably were playing, flatted fifth and so forth. And a lot of the things that that decent verb or later identify with, before this and bird actually became famous, I guess before it, before it actually gelled in New York.

00:03:10:12 - 00:03:22:07 Duke Ellington: Before they, you know, label, you know, I believe that it gives it a certain cliche form, you know, like delete. I’m the. Yeah, next to the, six.

00:03:22:09 - 00:03:24:10 Leonard Feather: A six to the flat five. That’s right.

00:03:24:13 - 00:03:34:24 Duke Ellington: Six. I never. Yeah, yeah, that’s. These warehouse tents,

00:03:34:27 - 00:03:40:01 Leonard Feather: You know. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right.

00:03:40:03 - 00:03:43:07 Leonard Feather: Well, that must have been, fairly general thing.

00:03:43:07 - 00:03:50:01 Leonard Feather: That I think it was just the musicians. Don’t you say? Would you say we’re just musicians in general? Were looking for something new to do.

00:03:50:03 - 00:03:51:17 Duke Ellington: Having a jazz happened.

00:03:51:19 - 00:04:02:21 Leonard Feather: Yeah, that’s my feeling to. I don’t think any one person was responsible. Or maybe, around the Middle West. Charlie Christian help to spread it or anybody else.

00:04:02:23 - 00:04:30:07 Duke Ellington: What do you is to blame bands like that, you know, and, from what I hear, he was the one. Yeah. I never heard him in person. And Duke used to Duke Brooks of the Arab Leagues to play with black, across the street from my father’s office. I think it and play tolerate in, I used to have faith in him.

00:04:30:11 - 00:04:38:22 Duke Ellington: Somebody could have his name. I these people in him, you know.

00:04:38:25 - 00:04:44:23 Leonard Feather: Well, you probably never played any other style with your own style, basically, did you? I mean, you didn’t start out playing like Roy or something.

00:04:44:25 - 00:04:48:07 Duke Ellington: You know, I started out playing like anybody I could play like.

00:04:48:10 - 00:04:50:00 Leonard Feather: Well, probably Clark Terry. That would mean.

00:04:50:05 - 00:04:56:13 Duke Ellington: Well, Terry was, you know, my main, as long as I used to follow him around and try.

00:04:56:13 - 00:05:00:12 Leonard Feather: To play me and Terry was model all right along with me.

00:05:00:14 - 00:05:03:29 Duke Ellington: All along. He’s been playing like that ever since I heard, you know.

00:05:04:01 - 00:05:07:15 Leonard Feather: Can I have a cigaret?

00:05:07:17 - 00:05:15:05 Duke Ellington: And even, you know, I used to hang out with Duke and Bland, you know, and they were really bad if you come to town was in the lane and they never did leave.

00:05:15:07 - 00:05:20:17 Leonard Feather: Yeah. All of that was Blanton’s, that modern harmonica, do you think?

00:05:20:19 - 00:05:21:07 Duke Ellington: I don’t know.

00:05:21:12 - 00:05:24:26 Leonard Feather: It’s hard to tell, isn’t it? But.

00:05:24:29 - 00:05:27:16 Duke Ellington: But, Duke is.

00:05:27:19 - 00:05:29:12 Leonard Feather: Just kind of.

00:05:29:14 - 00:05:32:08 Duke Ellington: What it was as well. Even with Duke Energy.

00:05:32:11 - 00:05:37:11 Leonard Feather: Yeah, he was way ahead rhythmically anyway, because of his time. Was was more modern, I.

00:05:37:11 - 00:05:54:11 Duke Ellington: Think to most of the people around. Doing a time in Saint Louis, in the middle of the hands of how big of these is play, like how big and Bobby act, you know. That’s right, but I was I don’t have anything I heard that I like I was going to play it and it was just my way of playing it because I couldn’t play.

00:05:54:11 - 00:06:03:12 Leonard Feather: I, you know.

00:06:03:14 - 00:06:12:11 Leonard Feather: Then when you arrived on the scene on the street, you probably didn’t hear anything completely different from anything you’d heard before. It was probably just,

00:06:12:14 - 00:06:33:08 Duke Ellington: I couldn’t find anything I liked other than Vic and. And did? Yeah. And I used to have, like, you know, Vic. Yeah. That’s, it goes death and play I did he played to either me, you know, and play like that, but I would get the cards from Mark. Yeah. And that’s probably, you know, I’m not going to close.

00:06:33:08 - 00:06:43:16 Leonard Feather: And and didn’t Yeah. And then had. Yeah. But anyway always on that stage.

00:06:43:19 - 00:06:58:12 Duke Ellington: But those guys but Kansas City and Saint Louis, you know. Injuries and Texas like jagged. I know a guy named Clyde.

00:06:58:15 - 00:07:08:17 Duke Ellington: And he, he.

00:07:08:20 - 00:07:10:23 Leonard Feather: Hello? Yeah.

00:07:10:25 - 00:07:17:14 Duke Ellington: And he was a hell of alto brand. He used to show me how to write him.

00:07:17:17 - 00:07:39:10 Duke Ellington: And he was supposed to get his play there, like, like, you know, like, oh, that’s kind of bad. The run his tab changed a lot of the year. And the only reason he didn’t go with, I mean, with Jimmy announcement and Wallace never left and he when I was stuck on the.

00:07:39:12 - 00:08:02:17 Duke Ellington: I don’t know where. the had boy from Texas name race had just played trumpet came up in Saint Louis because his father was up and he died or something. And he play when I play on Eddie around and he was playing is is

00:08:02:19 - 00:08:03:26 Leonard Feather: Who he played with Eddie.

00:08:03:29 - 00:08:14:14 Duke Ellington: And Randall and a boy named William Goodson. He used to play, and everybody wanted him to, like town and.

00:08:14:16 - 00:08:20:00 Leonard Feather: Well, I guess in general, it all these modern ideas were developing all over the place.

00:08:20:00 - 00:08:33:02 Duke Ellington: Then it was like closed and and all of a sudden you decide you don’t have to was bad. And, and, a lot of. Yeah, you know, you had a flower and leave out this path and pretty soon you leave of both of them.

00:08:33:02 - 00:08:33:14 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:08:33:16 - 00:08:36:08 Duke Ellington: That’s right. Yeah. And make sure I cut.

00:08:36:11 - 00:08:42:02 Leonard Feather: That’s right. But, I grew up pretty fast, and I.

00:08:42:04 - 00:09:00:09 Duke Ellington: Well, now I said me because everybody plays the cliches that they played five years ago or ten years. And then modern musicians. I really can’t stand you to many of, was a few.

00:09:00:11 - 00:09:02:11 Leonard Feather: What do you think about the West Coast?

00:09:02:23 - 00:09:08:00 Duke Ellington: they going to have, they got all of that on the West Coast.

00:09:08:02 - 00:09:09:10 Leonard Feather: Like the motion.

00:09:09:13 - 00:09:12:01 Duke Ellington: Is, I think the heat of it.

00:09:12:04 - 00:09:13:21 Leonard Feather: I mean, there’s definitely.

00:09:13:28 - 00:09:32:18 Duke Ellington: And the movie. I really don’t understand it. You know, I like Chico. He’s a good friend of mine, you know, but his band makes me sick. Well, a lot of it is not. Yeah. I don’t know what you hear. I rather live in the rain. Is of going to.

00:09:32:20 - 00:09:41:11 Leonard Feather: I was sure he started out as though he was trying to play like you. And then, I don’t know what happened to know.

00:09:41:13 - 00:09:46:22 Duke Ellington: As ends the. I don’t know if he even.

00:09:46:24 - 00:09:49:09 Leonard Feather: I said, started out trying to play like, you know.

00:09:49:12 - 00:10:07:11 Duke Ellington: At one time that he done so bad, you know, and I don’t understand why he’s not. He can’t play because he’s an arranger. And all he has to do is take his time.

00:10:07:14 - 00:10:26:01 Duke Ellington: And all he has to do is take his time. And he plays like he knows nothing about horn. Well, I think they are mad at me as far as my job as a concert deal, man. And he really used to tell me when he was in Baghdad that I’m in BS band. I believe in that.

00:10:26:04 - 00:10:35:05 Leonard Feather: Why do you think all have to have the right idea? When he was playing, when he was really playing, you know, every day, because he was one of the first arrangers that got the no. Yes.

00:10:35:08 - 00:10:38:23 Duke Ellington: He played pretty good at one. I don’t, I do he never played oh shit.

00:10:38:23 - 00:10:50:18 Leonard Feather: Is.

00:10:50:20 - 00:10:59:18 Duke Ellington: I really don’t know. Was having a California.

00:10:59:21 - 00:11:03:21 Leonard Feather: Well, how did the.

00:11:03:23 - 00:11:15:16 Leonard Feather: How did the evolution into the cool era begin? That’s that’s the part that I should really ask you about because you were so closely identified with that. What do you think? Really?

00:11:15:18 - 00:11:29:17 Duke Ellington: I really don’t know. I always wanted to play with the lights. you know, because I would think that. And I felt, you know, the way that I played, if I played like.

00:11:29:20 - 00:11:36:00 Leonard Feather: Why was so many employed? Tommy, those guys involved in that first thing was that just because of Gil Evans?

00:11:36:02 - 00:12:12:14 Duke Ellington: No. I don’t want it’s honest in him. And they, nine pieces. But Sonny was working it. What he was. And Detroit, I mean, and Jerry’s and get Lee because. Leave the lights. Lights on too. Yeah. And, Jerry was playing his baritone. In fact, I didn’t even expect him to play. In fact, I didn’t even, know Jerry until, I went down in Gil’s house and he was on.

00:12:12:17 - 00:12:16:17 Leonard Feather: Well, Jerry go about working with. On what? That timing is one thing.

00:12:16:20 - 00:12:22:06 Duke Ellington: I think Jerry was doing a few around, but Gil was really right. Yeah.

00:12:22:08 - 00:12:29:03 Leonard Feather: Didn’t Jerry play Anthony the at one time? I don’t know, maybe not.

00:12:29:06 - 00:12:37:00 Leonard Feather: But a lot of other guys like Joe Schulman and, Bill Barber, it was about 5 or 6 guys out of something. No band at first. The capital.

00:12:37:00 - 00:12:46:20 Duke Ellington: Side. Yeah. Well, Jerry had said getting, Joe, we wanted John Simmons doing everything we liked, you know?

00:12:46:20 - 00:12:48:18 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:12:48:20 - 00:13:05:06 Duke Ellington: And, I didn’t know Joe. Yeah. And, kills that he can play real night. You know, he had a good record in town as well, so he did. But I lay down the game and doing it. yeah.

00:13:05:09 - 00:13:09:29 Leonard Feather: I was I was busy.

00:13:10:01 - 00:13:11:20 Leonard Feather: You know.

00:13:11:23 - 00:13:19:15 Duke Ellington: I that whole thing started out as an experiment. And Monty k gonna say, job in the wrong was.

00:13:19:17 - 00:13:23:15 Leonard Feather: Oh, that’s right. Yeah. I had, you know.

00:13:23:18 - 00:13:28:05 Duke Ellington: Minded nothing. I had done a lot of, not amusing. Sure.

00:13:28:05 - 00:13:35:24 Leonard Feather: Him he never gets any credit.

00:13:35:26 - 00:13:39:22 Leonard Feather: That’s,

00:13:39:24 - 00:13:42:01 Leonard Feather: About 49, I guess, in.

00:13:42:01 - 00:13:48:08 Leonard Feather: That whole thing. So why not 50?

00:13:48:10 - 00:13:54:11 Leonard Feather: Two. Just don’t have any impact on you at all. That time, I didn’t. I mean, I think you.

00:13:54:14 - 00:14:04:23 Duke Ellington: Well, I love to hear Play by Sal, but I can make Billy Bar and, you know, because I didn’t know what his plan in.

00:14:04:25 - 00:14:11:17 Leonard Feather: Oh, I think he probably was one of the few white musicians that had some real harmonica roots now.

00:14:11:19 - 00:14:26:16 Duke Ellington: Yeah, but he had to play by him because they didn’t know, you know, in class. Yeah, like I got you. I know anybody can follow it. Tatum.

00:14:26:19 - 00:14:29:23 Duke Ellington: With a guitar and and he well I.

00:14:29:25 - 00:14:32:13 Leonard Feather: I think Lee had a pretty good understanding of.

00:14:32:15 - 00:14:45:04 Duke Ellington: Oh yeah. Well legally with him, nobody else. I rather hear, hear and learn about themselves just playing together. Yeah. You know.

00:14:45:06 - 00:14:55:13 Leonard Feather: I think they had something in common with your approach. In terms of the lightness, the general feeling. Don’t you think so? More than most musicians at that time.

00:14:55:15 - 00:15:17:25 Duke Ellington: They probably probably did, because, I used to play the piano when I am going to Duke Brooks. We used to play. We had a trio of, you know, and and a drum. Drum. And we used to play together all the time. So I had to play like the blend with him. Yeah.

00:15:17:27 - 00:15:33:08 Duke Ellington: I heard a band in Germany sound like, Leonard Coleman now. They had two horns, a trumpet and a baritone, and the piano player was playing, you know, like this. It pulled it apart.

00:15:33:10 - 00:15:40:25 Leonard Feather: Oh, yes. we learned that sometimes. They’re on a big Tristano call. It’s a kick in German.

00:15:41:10 - 00:15:47:21 Duke Ellington: yeah. That’s very popular. And that was played in Germany, for us.

00:15:47:24 - 00:15:55:07 Leonard Feather: Probably in Germany, because, France and Belgium, they. No, they’re not interested in that school.

00:15:55:09 - 00:16:00:09 Duke Ellington: Well, anyway, this band was from Germany. I think they were in France, in the valleys and.

00:16:00:09 - 00:16:01:07 Leonard Feather: You know, maybe so.

00:16:01:07 - 00:16:07:02 Leonard Feather: Yeah, probably from Germany.

00:16:07:05 - 00:16:12:26 Duke Ellington: Who was brothers?

00:16:12:28 - 00:16:14:20 Leonard Feather: I mean, yeah.

00:16:14:22 - 00:16:18:01 Duke Ellington: I can’t remember the name.

00:16:18:04 - 00:16:32:01 Leonard Feather: Well, I don’t think there’s any essential, important difference between the notes played in the bop era and, what is identified as cool jazz. Actually, it’s more a matter of interpretation of what’s.

00:16:32:13 - 00:16:37:23 Duke Ellington: the, I don’t understand how they label it that that thing, cool. You know.

00:16:37:26 - 00:16:39:09 Leonard Feather: Until it’s very big.

00:16:39:12 - 00:16:41:21 Duke Ellington: Cover. Like, I would go.

00:16:41:23 - 00:16:55:28 Leonard Feather: Yeah. Because, I mean, like, Cannonball to me is about musician. If you want to use that label at all. You know, he plays in the bird tradition. And, even though you’ve got a completely different style of your own, it’s directly grown out of,

00:16:56:00 - 00:16:59:24 Duke Ellington: You know who I think label that be the show?

00:16:59:26 - 00:17:08:17 Leonard Feather: No, I think the musician started using it because it was the sound of a phrase that was being used a lot. But either it’s just it’s, getting.

00:17:08:18 - 00:17:08:27 Duke Ellington: To.

00:17:09:04 - 00:17:16:19 Leonard Feather: Be a little bit about Billy Bob is up to be about. Oh, yeah. No, no, I think it came out of that, I don’t know, Billy shot.

00:17:16:19 - 00:17:22:05 Duke Ellington: I you know what I mean? He, But so it is, you know.

00:17:22:06 - 00:17:36:18 Leonard Feather: Oh, he he started selling it and capitalizing on it, but but the name itself, Disney himself told me that the name was just something he heard musicians using around to describe what he was doing, mainly because use that the the eighth followed by the, the quarter, you know.

00:17:36:24 - 00:17:41:04 Duke Ellington: Yeah. When I’m speaking a sell a thing. Oh yeah. And a public saying.

00:17:41:06 - 00:17:41:22 Leonard Feather: Yeah, very.

00:17:41:22 - 00:17:46:10 Duke Ellington: Likely because the only way you can say a phrase like that is bebop.

00:17:46:10 - 00:18:02:25 Leonard Feather: And that’s what I mean. I think that started, that is any essential difference between what they call bebop and what they now call cool jazz, or you’re just, you know. And I’m part of the same general approaches and all that.

00:18:02:26 - 00:18:11:21 Duke Ellington: They they just dropped that on me. He’s a cool as a you. Yeah.

00:18:11:24 - 00:18:19:14 Leonard Feather: I do you think there’s anything essentially different from the way between the way of playing now and the way you’re playing ten years ago? Sure. Yeah.

00:18:19:16 - 00:18:23:10 Duke Ellington: Oh, tell me what it is. I don’t know what it is.

00:18:23:12 - 00:18:38:28 Leonard Feather: Oh, it must be some way of analyzing it. I don’t think there’s that much of a difference personally. I mean, I think there’s a you definitely have developed and changed in some ways, but I still think that but basically it stems from the same feeling.

00:18:39:00 - 00:18:45:25 Duke Ellington: Well, a lot of things that I didn’t do and new I do now.

00:18:45:28 - 00:18:47:16 Leonard Feather: I mean, harmonically or technically.

00:18:47:18 - 00:18:56:03 Duke Ellington: Harmonically. Yeah, kind of technically it’s seven. Yeah.

00:18:56:05 - 00:18:57:22 Duke Ellington: I remember I used to have.

00:18:57:25 - 00:19:01:16 Leonard Feather: You still phrased the same way.

00:19:01:18 - 00:19:11:03 Duke Ellington: As not not as, I wasn’t doing definite and pronounced as I do it. And,

00:19:11:06 - 00:19:36:06 Duke Ellington: Sometimes, you know, I’m lazy anyway. And. If you don’t add something to do, know it. It dies. You know, certain notes and melody. Yeah. And the rhythm that you don’t cut into the rhythm so you can. It does too, you know. Yeah. You play behind a beat. The rhythm drops. Yeah. You know I can never play I had a big time as you right now.

00:19:36:08 - 00:19:44:05 Duke Ellington: So being pulls in some phrasing has melody I mean the beat. Yeah.

00:19:44:08 - 00:20:02:15 Leonard Feather: Well I think do you think the what people mean by the term cool jazz? It involves a mainly a solo style or mainly, an ensemble thing. Was I thinking of the capital record dates? Are they just thinking of an individual or a lead or something like that? As an individual.

00:20:02:18 - 00:20:10:12 Duke Ellington: What do they really mean? And they were they really managers of, up in the chain? Yeah. You know, too much.

00:20:10:19 - 00:20:17:08 Leonard Feather: maybe a playing a little behind the beat or less on the beat, but it used to be.

00:20:17:10 - 00:20:43:27 Duke Ellington: Yeah. And exactly just as, yourselves. as I know them, usually, my musicians say, well, I used to play hard, you know, and I don’t know what. I don’t know what they mean when I say hard, but I can and must be. They must mean a hard diva. Well, I haven’t any meaning in that.

00:20:43:29 - 00:21:01:27 Leonard Feather: Just a very pronounced emphasis on each note. yeah, I don’t, Mr. Carlo. I just play even though it’s a little louder, maybe. And very definite. Eight notes right on the beat, whereas you might play a little more rubato. Delay would be a little. I think that’s part of it.

00:21:01:29 - 00:21:19:16 Duke Ellington: Yeah. Well that’s it to play. So sometimes you have to relax and relax and then you play. You did. You don’t delay the beat. You might play for treble I guess for, you know, that sound delay.

00:21:19:19 - 00:21:21:10 Leonard Feather: Well, in a sense it is a delay.

00:21:21:19 - 00:21:31:19 Duke Ellington: if you do it right, it won’t bother the rhythm section, you know? You know, I won’t bring it back. Yeah.

00:21:31:21 - 00:21:32:20 Leonard Feather: Sometimes it actually.

00:21:33:01 - 00:21:43:27 Duke Ellington: just isn’t my guy. It’s a card, you know, like Bob, you can I. But, dude, dude, but, you know, but you fall right into the next day.

00:21:44:00 - 00:21:44:12 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:21:44:18 - 00:21:53:03 Duke Ellington: You know what I mean? You would. Rather than just going to lag behind the beat, you know? you know what I mean?

00:21:53:06 - 00:21:55:01 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:21:55:03 - 00:22:10:14 Duke Ellington: I get out to partying with someone that I don’t know, it gets to relax and then just, hand on the, behind to be very pleasant rather than, say, down, you know? Well, of course, he only does it when he gets tired.

00:22:10:16 - 00:22:14:00 Leonard Feather: Well, Eric, Ghana is an example of playing behind the beat deliberately.

00:22:14:03 - 00:22:15:10 Duke Ellington: The swing.

00:22:15:12 - 00:22:16:07 Leonard Feather: Manager, you know.

00:22:16:07 - 00:22:18:12 Duke Ellington: Doing, real shot video.

00:22:18:15 - 00:22:27:29 Leonard Feather: But he does play rubato though. He plays very definitely behind the beat. That’s part of his style. It’s not necessarily part of jazz as such.

00:22:28:01 - 00:22:53:21 Duke Ellington: It is, but it is. It’s like a tape, you know, if you have a, I’m not on tape machine, you know, what do you do? You know, but you can you can hear cut into it not, you know, you know, and it might be it might not be in time, but it’s still definite even if it’s all to be, you know, you know, you know, like, you know, like the.

00:22:53:24 - 00:22:54:29 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:22:55:02 - 00:23:03:22 Duke Ellington: But not like, just, you know. Deliberately playing behind a beat without any reason.

00:23:03:24 - 00:23:06:17 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I see what you mean.

00:23:06:26 - 00:23:22:02 Duke Ellington: some fine lines and, and Coney Island and, the guys just trying to find, like, great rounds, you know? Oh, yeah. Sorry. Serious. Put his left hand down.

00:23:22:05 - 00:23:34:10 Duke Ellington: In.

00:23:34:13 - 00:23:53:03 Duke Ellington: I was it sounds funny, right?

00:23:53:05 - 00:24:06:20 Duke Ellington: Because if you can add something to a classic reggae like. Yeah, yeah. Smooth one. Yeah. It’s a blend and say, look.

00:24:06:23 - 00:24:24:15 Duke Ellington: And I don’t know who that flute player was, but they really should have just. If he was up to the power of the era when Puerto Rico was living, they would even blow the horn on that whole day, on that, on reggae.

00:24:24:17 - 00:24:28:13 Leonard Feather: Any other comments on the rhythm section or anything?

00:24:28:23 - 00:24:38:10 Duke Ellington: Guitar player was terrible. I really can’t make I really can’t say nothing about. All right, well, you know.

00:24:38:12 - 00:24:41:09 Duke Ellington: I give it ten stars and.

00:24:41:11 - 00:24:44:12 Leonard Feather: Out of five.

00:24:44:15 - 00:24:46:11 Duke Ellington: On top of that, John loves Sweden.

00:24:46:11 - 00:24:52:23 Leonard Feather: You know, and.

00:24:52:25 - 00:24:54:29 Leonard Feather: Well, you’re right about.

00:24:55:01 - 00:25:11:15 Duke Ellington: Well, I like John’s. You know, John’s interpretation of a song is too much, you know. Last night Lenny played. Played, Something for me on the same album, but he didn’t play that one.

00:25:11:17 - 00:25:12:26 Leonard Feather: And never stop.

00:25:12:28 - 00:25:18:21 Duke Ellington: Learning. Oh, yeah, I’m telling his, oh, yeah.

00:25:18:23 - 00:25:39:05 Duke Ellington: But John Lewis has, Like, Lena said that somebody asked her about a song, and she said, well, one thing I do is things like the man wrote. And that’s where John plays the piano. He really talks, you know, like the song. Like it is.

00:25:39:07 - 00:25:49:29 Leonard Feather: How about the musician? Well, I don’t I don’t go for guitar. and John complimented him. You.

00:25:50:01 - 00:25:55:29 Leonard Feather: It was, it was John Edwards. like.

00:25:56:02 - 00:25:57:24 Leonard Feather: But,

00:25:57:27 - 00:26:03:26 Leonard Feather: For John.

00:26:03:29 - 00:26:04:06 Leonard Feather: You know.

00:26:04:07 - 00:26:22:26 Duke Ellington: That sounds like to me when you sound like one of those guys is a real nice companion. But I know it wouldn’t be the last guy. But I can’t I can’t tell who I liked, and then, you know, again, I can’t tell. This is. It sounds.

00:26:24:02 - 00:26:30:04 Leonard Feather: take it because I like.

00:26:30:06 - 00:26:37:23 Leonard Feather: And, I don’t know what’s been right.

00:26:37:25 - 00:26:42:17 Leonard Feather: Yeah. You know, I did.

00:26:42:19 - 00:26:50:27 Duke Ellington: I was determined.

00:26:51:06 - 00:27:06:06 Duke Ellington: this is a very in the an was like an old picture. You know, my picture was given.

00:27:06:09 - 00:27:20:02 Duke Ellington: To.

00:27:20:04 - 00:27:30:10 Duke Ellington: But I don’t see a record going again. Right. Good. So, like.

00:27:30:13 - 00:27:32:16 Leonard Feather: You know, you never.

00:27:32:18 - 00:27:44:22 Duke Ellington: He never gives in as the to. But. You. I love that I’m on my date. I had him, Leo.

00:27:44:24 - 00:27:55:15 Duke Ellington: I love him. Play what I like instead of. Unless his point is,

00:27:55:17 - 00:27:59:08 Duke Ellington: But I and I.

00:27:59:10 - 00:28:03:03 Leonard Feather: And I would have done.

00:28:03:06 - 00:28:18:13 Duke Ellington: So that’s definitely, you know. And that’s where he played. And we used to I.

00:28:18:28 - 00:28:32:27 Duke Ellington: and it’s, than that what he’s done. What is that? A man? Good. to,

00:28:32:29 - 00:28:39:16 Duke Ellington: What would you be doing on.

00:28:39:19 - 00:28:44:07 Duke Ellington: Down in.

00:28:44:10 - 00:28:51:15 Duke Ellington: I don’t know, yeah.

00:28:51:18 - 00:29:04:07 Duke Ellington: Thank you. I don’t know, I don’t know, man. Nice. Me is I like down the name.

00:29:04:09 - 00:29:06:00 Duke Ellington: Imitating somebody. But I know.

00:29:06:00 - 00:29:15:29 Leonard Feather: I wasn’t him.

00:29:16:01 - 00:29:22:11 Duke Ellington: Yeah, I like to do, but, you know, and and, the da da dah.

00:29:22:23 - 00:29:24:14 Leonard Feather: Oh. Yeah.

00:29:24:17 - 00:29:32:29 Duke Ellington: So as long as it sounds like him. But I know it is. And then he didn’t have that much feeling.

00:29:33:01 - 00:29:35:04 Leonard Feather: Well, how would you rate it?

00:29:35:07 - 00:29:55:15 Duke Ellington: I like it or. Yeah. No, no, no, that was, sounds good. And but but I don’t like that kind of to have a plan.

00:29:55:17 - 00:30:07:11 Duke Ellington: Not to go to my favorite. And, guitar sounds good. And spurs and piano, but sounds good.

00:30:07:13 - 00:30:14:04 Duke Ellington: That is a nice little, I’ll have that little interlude, and,

00:30:14:07 - 00:30:25:06 Duke Ellington: And then, we’ll play and try to. I’ll give it three stars.

00:30:25:08 - 00:30:26:05 Leonard Feather: What with that last one.

00:30:26:09 - 00:30:41:27 Duke Ellington: And so those two that, I know that, sounds like bass and, and it sounds like in there.

00:30:41:29 - 00:30:56:25 Duke Ellington: I never know where to play that. Play that, play that much.

00:30:56:27 - 00:31:01:24 Duke Ellington: Must be birds.

00:31:01:26 - 00:31:22:25 Duke Ellington: But you know that boy, Paul Quinn is. He covers them so much as that. I can’t really tell the difference. It it’s an old recognize. It was praise. It was a new rag. It must be Paul. Credit. And, I know the trumpet players, but I can’t think of his name.

00:31:22:28 - 00:31:24:26 Leonard Feather: And I could.

00:31:24:29 - 00:31:31:07 Duke Ellington: Yeah, I don’t it.

00:31:31:09 - 00:32:11:01 Duke Ellington: Maybe it might be Jerry. Not in there. I don’t know. how many stars or. And drum sounds I do. Frank Butler, you know, sounds like everything I have, I like Leroy and Bass and the antenna. I don’t know who that probably was. Sound like Chet on. I play like me. And an outgoing. Yeah, but I don’t even like them at all.

00:32:11:04 - 00:32:17:05 Duke Ellington: I give it to her.

00:32:17:08 - 00:32:25:13 Duke Ellington: And, I know the West Coast record right. Sure. It. Glenn drove it.

00:32:25:15 - 00:32:36:25 Duke Ellington: And I don’t, I never heard James Clay, but I guess him must be him.

00:32:36:28 - 00:32:44:07 Duke Ellington: I don’t know anything about that. No, no, I gave it two stars.

00:32:44:10 - 00:33:00:06 Duke Ellington: No further comments. Nothing. I’ll give it five stars. I like to some of them. Not me. because they’re playing bad, dumb, modern bad. Down on that. Okay, well, I’m.

00:33:00:08 - 00:33:04:05 Leonard Feather: Going to have to do everything.

00:33:04:08 - 00:33:17:16 Duke Ellington: Yeah, that’s, that’s what I’m. I’m like, yes, man. Okay. they sound good to me. Sound better? Really? Brad.

00:33:18:02 - 00:33:25:08 Duke Ellington: and always saying I good is I can’t I don’t understand, Ruben. who do you like in that?

00:33:25:11 - 00:33:31:01 Duke Ellington: Well, I like Red Allen, and,

00:33:31:03 - 00:33:42:14 Duke Ellington: And Louis. Well, you can always tell Louis Bob arguably is good and that, but I can’t tell anybody else.

00:33:42:17 - 00:33:43:24 Leonard Feather: But anyway, five stars.

00:33:43:27 - 00:33:46:11 Duke Ellington: Yeah, I like that red.

00:33:46:13 - 00:34:24:24 Leonard Feather: And I think it’ll be a great thing for you if you would. Not only because, because of the rest of the public. Because, that just doesn’t seem to be any real objective being accomplished by keeping the band together this way. And, chronically touring, as you call with, with a thing that is really much less integrated than it should be, much less organized and planned so that the live show and, the way things are going, with the band, you said you had bad weeks and you’ve got a couple of personnel problems, and, I just think you got a lot of those problems will be solved by, concentrating all

00:34:24:24 - 00:34:42:05 Leonard Feather: your efforts into a certain period of the year. I mean, this is not original thought with me. I know it’s been placed probably put before you by many other people, but I’m sort of just want to put on my $0.05 worth because, I think the more people you get upon, the more you may begin to take it seriously.

00:34:42:07 - 00:34:57:08 Leonard Feather: And I’m only saying it because I think, I think I have your best interests at heart when you, as a person as well as, musician and everything else in the band. Well, I think so too. it is that.

00:34:57:11 - 00:35:00:21 Duke Ellington: Right? Discussed these when I was on.

00:35:00:23 - 00:35:21:19 Leonard Feather: Let me turn this up. So in case you don’t.

00:35:21:22 - 00:35:23:04 Leonard Feather: Tell me what I want.

00:35:23:06 - 00:35:38:20 Leonard Feather: When you get this book. Well, here’s what the book is going to be. So you get an idea. if it’s going to be called the Encyclopedia of Jazz. okay. And contain, a short.

00:35:38:22 - 00:35:43:12 Leonard Feather: History of jazz and, maybe a little technical.

00:35:43:14 - 00:36:11:18 Leonard Feather: Analysis of music, but mainly it’s going to consist of at least a thousand biographies of musicians, alphabetically, with lists of records. And, so the whole thing is going to be a reference book. It’ll, I hope, be used in libraries by disc jockeys and bands and everything with a lot of pictures of them, too. And so the idea is to make it a really, definitive reference book and, some of the last for 10 or 20 years.

00:36:12:24 - 00:36:14:18 Leonard Feather: I think production is going to be a very good looking.

00:36:14:18 - 00:36:18:17 Leonard Feather: Book to have a.

00:36:18:19 - 00:36:25:05 Leonard Feather: I have some other book here by the same publisher that’s a similar style, which I’ll show you right.

00:36:25:07 - 00:36:44:22 Leonard Feather: And, so, it will be, the kind of thing that will be used by newspapermen and anybody to refer to if they want to find out anything about anybody, or they want to find out whether they contact a record company or a musician or, you know, just about every, every reference.

00:36:44:22 - 00:36:56:18 Leonard Feather: Angle that you can think of it, lists of records with the record companies, with agencies, particularly the biographies of musicians. The main thing that’ll be working.

00:36:56:20 - 00:36:58:10 Leonard Feather: And I’m selecting them as carefully as I can.

00:36:58:10 - 00:37:06:14 Leonard Feather: To contain all schools and, and I’ll have a bunch of them. All in all the New Orleans musicians over two and down of them most.

00:37:06:16 - 00:37:19:05 Leonard Feather: Up to date. And try to keep in mind the fact that all these new people coming up all the time, and so a thousand people will be selected this carefully as possible. and, what you’re saying the forward is really entirely.

00:37:19:05 - 00:37:36:07 Leonard Feather: Up to you. You could talk about the book or just talk in general about your experiences in jazz or anything you want to think of that would be of interest to put in front of the book. A very flexible thing. And I have some idea about.

00:37:36:10 - 00:37:37:26 Leonard Feather: You know, this the approach.

00:37:39:10 - 00:37:47:00 Leonard Feather: just like to have you in there in that capacity.

00:37:47:03 - 00:37:54:11 Leonard Feather: And what do you think?

00:37:54:14 - 00:38:00:29 Leonard Feather: What do you think you might say? Well, what do you say? Well, well, actually.

00:38:01:01 - 00:38:19:11 Leonard Feather: Better know if you let me. I’m gonna. You. What is love? And,

00:38:19:14 - 00:38:32:14 Leonard Feather: I’m not happy together. I’m happy to together. One romance and one.

00:38:32:17 - 00:39:11:28 Leonard Feather: Is married. Love your song wherein. Oh, we’re, Album. Oh. No, I’m with you all the way, with your friend. Oh, no. No.

00:39:22:23 - 00:39:30:27 Leonard Feather: Well.

00:39:30:29 - 00:39:50:07 Leonard Feather: Well.

00:39:50:09 - 00:40:15:01 Leonard Feather: You’re gonna love it. You know I love it. And, I better get, I will get,

00:40:15:04 - 00:40:28:22 Leonard Feather: My husband Rick loved your story. Wherever we’re on of.

00:40:29:17 - 00:41:27:12 Leonard Feather: And you always, when you read us your.

00:41:27:14 - 00:41:37:14 Leonard Feather: You.

00:41:37:16 - 00:41:44:08 Leonard Feather: Come home.

00:41:44:10 - 00:41:47:15 Leonard Feather: And.

00:41:47:18 - 00:41:59:21 Leonard Feather: Work.

00:41:59:23 - 00:42:19:07 Leonard Feather: Through the.

00:42:19:10 - 00:43:03:15 Leonard Feather: Day.

00:43:03:17 - 00:43:32:00 Leonard Feather: And.

00:43:32:02 - 00:43:34:16 Leonard Feather: This concludes the music on this tape. Thanks for.

00:43:34:16 - 00:43:38:17 Duke Ellington: Listening.