Calvin Jackson Blindfold Test – Art Blakey Interview & Blindfold Test – Herb Ellis Blindfold Test [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:17 Leonard Feather: what? The Calvin Jackson blindfold test. Record number one.

00:00:22:19 - 00:00:26:22 Leonard Feather: Well, Leonard, I love it.

00:00:26:24 - 00:00:37:04 Leonard Feather: Look at the rain.

00:00:37:06 - 00:00:43:17 Leonard Feather: Well, Go ahead. I mean, sit down. Just.

00:00:43:19 - 00:00:51:15 Art Blakey: Right. You know. See if that’s,

00:00:51:18 - 00:01:05:12 Leonard Feather: Hello? Art Blakey? Yeah. I can’t interview you about that because I had so many columns lately about Japan and Russia and all the foreign scene stuff. We’ll have to find some domestic situation to discuss. I mean, this.

00:01:05:12 - 00:01:07:04 Calvin Jackson: Film, you know. That’s good. Yeah.

00:01:07:06 - 00:01:09:17 Leonard Feather: Well, you know, there are other things that are.

00:01:09:19 - 00:01:11:20 Calvin Jackson: You know, I’m surprised.

00:01:11:22 - 00:01:12:25 Leonard Feather: Well.

00:01:12:27 - 00:01:15:24 Calvin Jackson: At Los Angeles, California.

00:01:15:26 - 00:01:16:23 Leonard Feather: Okay.

00:01:16:26 - 00:01:18:08 Calvin Jackson: people have been coming out.

00:01:18:10 - 00:01:32:00 Leonard Feather: Oh, well, that’s a good thing to talk about, because this has been put down as a dead time for jazz. You know, it’ll be kind of interesting, man, you know? You know, I, I can see it. I think if you’ve got the right attraction, that you’ll get em anyway. You know.

00:01:32:03 - 00:01:41:06 Calvin Jackson: Because it surprised me. I didn’t look forward to that. And it happened, you know. Yeah. You know, of course. I mean, we make all the radio shows and everything that we can, you know?

00:01:41:11 - 00:01:56:18 Leonard Feather: Yeah, that certainly helps. But even then, we didn’t have a group of people on it here and that wouldn’t help, you know. If you didn’t have a group that people are interested in hearing it, you know, if they didn’t like the records on the island they wouldn’t come in. So it just proves that the group means something.

00:01:56:21 - 00:01:57:12 Leonard Feather: Maybe this.

00:01:57:12 - 00:01:58:05 Calvin Jackson: Penthouse.

00:01:58:05 - 00:02:05:08 Leonard Feather: Maybe this kind of music is finally getting through. The more people you know, real swinging.

00:02:05:10 - 00:02:06:01 Calvin Jackson: You think so?

00:02:06:02 - 00:02:11:01 Leonard Feather: I believe so. You know, I’d like to think so.

00:02:11:03 - 00:02:17:21 Calvin Jackson: Because it shows. I think it gets to him. I know it does. Just takes a little time. It’s much better than it has been.

00:02:17:23 - 00:02:22:28 Leonard Feather: I think so much better. I think the scores are getting a little hipper. Yeah.

00:02:23:00 - 00:02:30:22 Calvin Jackson: Maybe so, but, I think it’s much better for overall for jazz in the past, say, 15 years ago.

00:02:30:24 - 00:02:32:20 Leonard Feather: Oh, yeah. There’s no question about it. You know.

00:02:32:20 - 00:02:37:08 Calvin Jackson: It’s gotten better. And things look good to me.

00:02:37:10 - 00:03:00:25 Leonard Feather: Well, you were you just think, what were you what were you doing 15 years ago? You were were you out of the big band scene by then? Yeah, yeah. What were you doing then? 15 years ago. 20 years ago? 20 years? There were no concerts? No. There were not really any jazz clubs to speak of. Know?

00:03:00:27 - 00:03:02:19 Calvin Jackson: I was in the big band.

00:03:02:21 - 00:03:05:09 Leonard Feather: Yeah. You were with Billy Eckstine, you know, like that.

00:03:05:11 - 00:03:07:04 Calvin Jackson: Fletcher Henderson was.

00:03:07:07 - 00:03:13:08 Leonard Feather: You know, was pretty much of a scuffle, wasn’t it? Yeah, it was still so. Still dance music.

00:03:13:09 - 00:03:35:18 Calvin Jackson: Yeah. That’s right. Had to be. And, I went with Billy and he’s done that band really broke it up, but people didn’t know what what we were doing. And sometimes, you know, the band was playing some, you know, the new music, you know, and they. But it’s a funny thing. Before they knew it, they got out there.

00:03:35:18 - 00:03:53:05 Calvin Jackson: They could dance to it. They could dance to this kind of music they were playing. It just frightened them to pose. That’s true. It seems to frighten them. They can dance to it. You know, because it’s rhythmic, but they just afraid to take a chance. I don’t know what it is but they, they can dance to it.

00:03:53:07 - 00:03:59:26 Leonard Feather: Have you played any, any dance states with this group. No I haven’t even tried to book you on.

00:03:59:28 - 00:04:12:15 Calvin Jackson: Yeah I would like they doing that now. I guess we’re trying to get us to do, you know, college play. Yeah, it’s a concert. Oh, that’s.

00:04:12:17 - 00:04:18:08 Leonard Feather: That’s right. Like I do a concert followed by a dance. Yeah, yeah.

00:04:18:10 - 00:04:38:26 Calvin Jackson: You know, it’s a good idea, you know, try to introduce it. It can be done if it’s done right, you know, and get in the right, you know, places, and then you’re trying to put this up. And then the guy has another thing going down there. Some promoter, he wants to promote a couple of dances.

00:04:38:28 - 00:04:43:28 Leonard Feather: You know, around where,

00:04:44:00 - 00:04:46:02 Calvin Jackson: I guess in South Carolina somewhere.

00:04:46:04 - 00:04:48:07 Leonard Feather: Oh, really? Yeah.

00:04:48:10 - 00:04:51:12 Calvin Jackson: And, Georgia.

00:04:51:14 - 00:04:53:14 Leonard Feather: And what do you play there?

00:04:53:16 - 00:04:59:01 Calvin Jackson: So I play there. Why not? I don’t know. Yeah, well, I play there.

00:04:59:02 - 00:05:00:15 Leonard Feather: You’re not going to take any.

00:05:00:18 - 00:05:03:02 Calvin Jackson: Money and run like a thief,

00:05:03:04 - 00:05:14:26 Leonard Feather: Well, in know what would you play for it? For a segregated audience. As long as you know what’s what I’m talking about. How are you going to get a good audience in Georgia? Isn’t going to have anything to that.

00:05:14:26 - 00:05:15:18 Calvin Jackson: It’s happening.

00:05:15:22 - 00:05:16:26 Leonard Feather: In Georgia. Really?

00:05:16:29 - 00:05:19:00 Calvin Jackson: Oh, sure, man, it’s happening.

00:05:19:00 - 00:05:20:27 Leonard Feather: I mean, I in South Carolina, maybe.

00:05:21:00 - 00:05:28:09 Calvin Jackson: In Georgia, there’s a place called the, it’s name of that place. It’s a hotel.

00:05:28:11 - 00:05:29:05 Leonard Feather: And little.

00:05:29:07 - 00:05:33:05 Calvin Jackson: What’s the name of it, what’s the name of it?

00:05:33:08 - 00:05:34:11 Leonard Feather: Yeah, I don’t know.

00:05:34:14 - 00:05:43:10 Calvin Jackson: Well, a hockey yeah. In Georgia that if you walk in the wall of hockey, you think you’re in New York City.

00:05:43:12 - 00:05:44:01 Leonard Feather: In the same.

00:05:44:06 - 00:05:50:20 Calvin Jackson: Long as you stay in the wall of hockey. This is a big hotel where they have everything in there. You don’t have to go out for nothing.

00:05:50:23 - 00:05:52:02 Leonard Feather: Do you know how to spell in bands?

00:05:52:02 - 00:06:01:22 Calvin Jackson: Play in that. You know, I don’t know how it is, but I know it’s. Well, gee, dizzy played and had a bowl. He had integrated band that’s.

00:06:01:22 - 00:06:04:00 Leonard Feather: Remarkable with a quintet and all.

00:06:04:00 - 00:06:07:28 Calvin Jackson: And brag about how great it was in a little ball. He had very much.

00:06:08:01 - 00:06:21:08 Leonard Feather: Yeah. Well I would, I would imagine that, jazz has had a great deal to do with breaking the thing now that I think the kind of people who patronize jazz, of the kind that would least, least tend to worry about segregation.

00:06:21:10 - 00:06:43:10 Calvin Jackson: That’s right. So it’s a, it’s, and they would do it, you know, but they try to do it in, Algiers, too, in Algiers. You know, we tried that. Yeah. They tried. We put a, segregated audience on us, you know, and it kept on this is is France, and we couldn’t spend a French franc down if another they telling me.

00:06:43:10 - 00:06:47:12 Calvin Jackson: And we went out there and we saw the audiences, man.

00:06:47:15 - 00:06:50:07 Leonard Feather: Oh, you mean I just North Africa? Yeah. At this man. Algiers, Louisiana.

00:06:50:08 - 00:06:57:29 Calvin Jackson: Know how this is not that. Oh that’s right, we backed up. Yeah. That’s what I explained to them and took about played the theme song.

00:06:58:00 - 00:07:03:22 Leonard Feather: That’s interesting. The French segregation. Yeah. That’s supposed to be so right. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

00:07:03:24 - 00:07:15:29 Calvin Jackson: That’s what. Yeah. Well, that’s the whole thing. Ladies and gentlemen, I’m sorry. You know, I got to get up and shave in the morning, and I come all the way to Africa to play for segregated audiences.

00:07:16:03 - 00:07:17:05 Leonard Feather: Isn’t that weird?

00:07:17:07 - 00:07:23:00 Calvin Jackson: I couldn’t do it. We couldn’t play. We nearly started a riot.

00:07:23:02 - 00:07:25:20 Leonard Feather: Oh, my God, cause it’ll be the same thing in Algiers.

00:07:25:22 - 00:07:47:14 Calvin Jackson: Because it was in our contract that we weren’t supposed to play for a segregated, in Algiers. But it was. And the guy that was in charge of took us down as it. Come on, you know, that he was a Frenchman, You know, he was hip. He said, if that’s the way they’re going to act is the way they got it.

00:07:47:17 - 00:08:00:20 Calvin Jackson: You know, that’s why I call that what they did. They didn’t say that. Nobody was, segregated against it. They raised the price is so high.

00:08:00:23 - 00:08:04:07 Leonard Feather: Yeah, that it was impossible for anybody else to. Yeah, yeah, it’s right.

00:08:04:10 - 00:08:09:28 Calvin Jackson: And it’s all out.

00:08:10:01 - 00:08:12:15 Calvin Jackson: That’s the way they did it.

00:08:12:18 - 00:08:19:17 Leonard Feather: what year was that? Recently.

00:08:19:19 - 00:08:24:20 Leonard Feather:

1. Oh, yeah. Just two years ago. Yeah.

00:08:24:23 - 00:08:29:20 Calvin Jackson:

1. It was. People had bit.

00:08:29:22 - 00:08:35:01 Leonard Feather: Incidentally, what did you have a part in that? Listen. Dangerous.

00:08:35:03 - 00:08:36:00 Calvin Jackson: Yeah.

00:08:36:03 - 00:08:38:17 Leonard Feather: We made you seen and heard.

00:08:38:19 - 00:08:42:20 Calvin Jackson: We made, music for the whole thing. Duke Jordan.

00:08:42:20 - 00:08:47:03 Leonard Feather: Road to hell. Yeah. That was what I wanted to straighten out. What did monk have to do with it?

00:08:47:05 - 00:08:49:05 Calvin Jackson: Monk didn’t have anything to do with it.

00:08:49:07 - 00:08:54:00 Leonard Feather: We got credit, didn’t he? I don’t know, I think I credit in some way for having.

00:08:54:00 - 00:09:00:06 Calvin Jackson: But he didn’t have nothing to do with it. Monk didn’t. Do you know, monkey as he said he was going to do it? Yeah, yeah.

00:09:00:07 - 00:09:09:28 Leonard Feather: Oh, monkey didn’t have, you know, he’s going to. Yeah, because I’ve got the album. You’re off, you know that. And, there’s your group. Anthony William Lousma. Yeah. Was the only one.

00:09:10:05 - 00:09:13:14 Calvin Jackson: The only other one mentioned. Yeah. Wayne Shorter was the only one who.

00:09:13:14 - 00:09:23:01 Leonard Feather: Wasn’t there on that day. Oh, he replaced Ronnie. Replaced him? Yeah. See? Yeah. Outside of that was your your group? Yeah, with Lee Morgan and, Yeah, it was on piano.

00:09:23:01 - 00:09:24:03 Calvin Jackson: That Bobby Timmons.

00:09:24:03 - 00:09:24:27 Leonard Feather: Yeah.

00:09:24:29 - 00:09:27:14 Calvin Jackson: And Jimmy and myself, I say.

00:09:27:17 - 00:09:31:03 Leonard Feather: Yeah, let’s go. I haven’t seen you yet, but it’s around here and I know it’s.

00:09:31:03 - 00:09:38:16 Art Blakey: Been around town. I got to go see. I haven’t seen yeah. Going to mention that in the article.

00:09:38:18 - 00:09:56:19 Calvin Jackson: But we did a better one than that man with a better movie than that. And I don’t think it’s released yet. Oh yeah. Something about the bad girls or something. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty good. We did over there with Benny Golson and, Lee Morgan and Bobby Timmons, Jimmy Merritt.

00:09:56:22 - 00:09:57:12 Leonard Feather: And Clu.

00:09:57:15 - 00:10:11:03 Calvin Jackson: And myself. Oh, yeah. Two drums. Yeah. Let’s play playing temps. kind of nice. You know, I never got away, you know?

00:10:11:06 - 00:10:15:27 Art Blakey: Oh, I gotta find out about that, cuz.

00:10:15:29 - 00:10:16:23 Leonard Feather: I think I got what.

00:10:16:23 - 00:10:25:22 Art Blakey: I want for the. Oh.

00:10:25:25 - 00:10:30:09 Art Blakey: Hey.

00:10:30:11 - 00:10:31:18 Leonard Feather: Just hear that before.

00:10:31:21 - 00:10:36:14 Calvin Jackson: Yeah. Like that. my job.

00:10:36:16 - 00:10:41:25 Art Blakey: I my.

00:10:41:27 - 00:10:46:02 Art Blakey: The Duke. A lot of bands that we call it that I have no be able to be rich.

00:10:46:04 - 00:10:56:07 Leonard Feather: How long has it been since you introduced that you made the first record here? Oh, it’s only four years. Seems like long does it so much that, you know.

00:10:56:10 - 00:11:00:05 Art Blakey: Yeah. I think that the arrangement.

00:11:00:05 - 00:11:13:12 Calvin Jackson: You came upon. Yeah. Sure did. He was fooling around out there in Columbus a lot. He’d been banging around on the piano, and we just maybe one day I put it together.

00:11:13:14 - 00:11:19:15 Art Blakey: Etc.. And then he goes to the.

00:11:19:17 - 00:11:26:12 Calvin Jackson: Thing my made Bobby put it together because he wouldn’t do it. He was thinking about, I don’t know, he just mess around with some.

00:11:26:12 - 00:11:33:09 Art Blakey: Chords, you know? Yeah, I put it together. Oh, it’s a good thing.

00:11:33:11 - 00:11:35:29 Leonard Feather: If you think this arrangement got the right.

00:11:36:01 - 00:11:40:01 Art Blakey: Feeling as well.

00:11:40:04 - 00:11:53:16 Calvin Jackson: Yeah, for a big band, I think it was wonderful. You know, at the time with the, you know, and been playing it together. Of course we play it, you know, over every night and it.

00:11:53:19 - 00:12:00:16 Art Blakey: It begins to, you know, be better jealous. Yeah. That’s Phil’s and you know, and the way they would,

00:12:00:18 - 00:12:05:25 Calvin Jackson: Benny and Lee would work together on and not attack, you know, I mean, it’s not as many people.

00:12:05:27 - 00:12:07:25 Leonard Feather: Yeah. It’s easy to season.

00:12:07:27 - 00:12:15:15 Art Blakey: Yeah. You think it’s a pretty good considering that. Yeah, but it’s, it’s good for what he had to do.

00:12:15:15 - 00:12:19:15 Leonard Feather: That’s something you said about three stars.

00:12:19:15 - 00:12:22:21 Art Blakey: Was good.

00:12:22:23 - 00:12:28:07 Art Blakey: It’s a little right. You know, I wasn’t,

00:12:28:10 - 00:12:29:13 Calvin Jackson: Well, it’s a good record.

00:12:29:13 - 00:12:35:15 Art Blakey: Yeah, it’s very good because I see him, you know,

00:12:35:17 - 00:12:36:20 Calvin Jackson: And I like, you know.

00:12:36:20 - 00:12:48:21 Art Blakey: Where it went down. Yeah. Oh. Do you see? You got. Well. That’s right.

00:12:48:23 - 00:13:14:26 Leonard Feather: Those unofficially, we haven’t played, So, Oh last night and, you pick. Oh. That’s all. Yeah. I’ll be down front of to play. But anyway, I, I have, you know, I’m good. All right. Fine. Sure. Yeah. There’s no rush on that, and you probably can. Say though that was that. Oh. But you know when you start I think you know change your mind.

00:13:14:29 - 00:13:16:01 Leonard Feather: Well yeah.

00:13:16:04 - 00:13:17:13 Calvin Jackson: It’s clock theory.

00:13:17:15 - 00:13:22:11 Leonard Feather: sure enough I was thinking

00:13:22:14 - 00:13:26:04 Calvin Jackson: Bobby my isn’t that

00:13:26:06 - 00:13:37:23 Leonard Feather: I don’t know Bobby, but mine is. I think it is, I don’t know what do you think of it? I like that, that’s good. I mean, yeah.

00:13:37:25 - 00:13:46:01 Art Blakey: I’ll keep. But here he is. I’ll be Hall of Fame because, I mean.

00:13:46:01 - 00:13:47:22 Leonard Feather: I was a,

00:13:47:24 - 00:13:56:09 Calvin Jackson: Good a hell of a be a good, be.

00:13:56:11 - 00:14:03:12 Calvin Jackson: But thank you. Sounds like a lot of people I know.

00:14:03:15 - 00:14:08:08 Leonard Feather: And what girl would you say is. And what what style? And,

00:14:08:10 - 00:14:10:10 Calvin Jackson: Please listen to.

00:14:10:12 - 00:14:18:05 Art Blakey: They want you to.

00:14:18:08 - 00:14:26:19 Calvin Jackson: Well, I been listening to anybody. I think that he. Yeah. It’s either you or the day. Bailey. It’s either one of.

00:14:26:19 - 00:14:30:21 Leonard Feather: Them, too. That’s right.

00:14:30:23 - 00:14:32:10 Calvin Jackson: It was Ozzie.

00:14:32:12 - 00:14:47:05 Leonard Feather: Well, when you through up until you lost one of those two, though. You right. What would you say? That they’re just, very efficient all around drummers. Right? So, no, they were,

00:14:47:07 - 00:14:53:07 Calvin Jackson: well, I was thinking of that on, was, that was because of the arrangement, I know. Right?

00:14:53:10 - 00:15:00:26 Art Blakey: Oh, yeah. You know, like things like that.

00:15:00:28 - 00:15:23:01 Leonard Feather: So would you rate it in the low, How would you rate it? Is that it? No, no, I got it down for us. I’ll get another, you know, one is for two is for three years. Coach. Four is very good and five is sensational. Well, there’s four, all right. And the other one was one moment when you get that one also fun.

00:15:23:03 - 00:15:35:23 Leonard Feather: Okay. Yeah, yeah. That was, they really. And I’m not sure. And of course, like very Mr.,

00:15:35:25 - 00:15:44:15 Leonard Feather: Oh.

00:15:44:17 - 00:15:48:08 Calvin Jackson: Yeah. Who was that?

00:15:48:11 - 00:15:52:10 Leonard Feather: Point. I mean, I don’t, don’t, coach somebody.

00:15:52:12 - 00:15:58:14 Art Blakey: Coach, you know.

00:15:58:16 - 00:16:09:17 Leonard Feather: well, the musical impressions worked out as if it was.

00:16:09:19 - 00:16:14:22 Calvin Jackson: What did it lack of what would it have?

00:16:14:24 - 00:16:18:15 Calvin Jackson: It,

00:16:18:17 - 00:16:31:18 Calvin Jackson: It didn’t like anything. I guess it’s guess that’s the way they wanted to play it, you know? But it didn’t. It didn’t lack anything, you know, it was just it,

00:16:31:20 - 00:16:55:13 Calvin Jackson: I don’t think big bands it for for for dramas. Yeah. Because he doesn’t have enough freedom, you know, to do the things that he wanted to do. But, anyway, you know, because we, I think it’s too many personalities or something to fool with. I mean, they just don’t. We need them to. We need big bands. But to Cathy, they’re not together long enough to have that real feeling of the bands should have.

00:16:55:15 - 00:17:13:16 Calvin Jackson: If we had big bands on the road, you know, like used to be, the guys get to live with each other. Then we have some big band music, but it’s pretty hard to take a band and threw it together. And no, it doesn’t say sounds good. It sounds getting together, but you can tell that they, they haven’t worked together.

00:17:13:17 - 00:17:34:28 Calvin Jackson: Yeah. You know, because was just, you know, trying to make a good recording. That’s very hard. I wish we had more big bands because it would be a school for the kids. Yeah, that’s true. You know, it would help so many young kids up, man, straighten them right out and would help them. But since we don’t have them, it’s pretty hard to put a date together.

00:17:35:06 - 00:17:41:09 Art Blakey: Yeah. You know, damn. It was it was good. Right? Good. Right, right.

00:17:41:09 - 00:17:46:01 Calvin Jackson: Didn’t guess.

00:17:46:04 - 00:17:49:14 Calvin Jackson: Well, I tell you. Well, I think it was. I think it was the tempos.

00:17:49:14 - 00:17:57:26 Art Blakey: It was changing too much for me. Yeah. You know, it’s, good, but tempos change a little bit too much. You know.

00:17:57:28 - 00:18:13:00 Calvin Jackson: It’s just such an early on. Well, it’s. It’s kind of hard to go from, one extreme directly into another. Unless you were going into, like, into a mambo or something. Yeah. Tasteful into another.

00:18:13:00 - 00:18:15:27 Leonard Feather: Rhythm, another words. Change of meter as well. yeah.

00:18:15:29 - 00:18:26:08 Art Blakey: Yeah. Because it it wouldn’t gel pretty good when it’s just, you know. Yeah. is that right, Randy? Yeah. Okay.

00:18:26:11 - 00:18:30:16 Leonard Feather: Do you want to pass that right now? Because as we not do the.

00:18:30:18 - 00:18:37:11 Calvin Jackson: You know, the way to get right today, you know, they write in one move and they go into another one without upsetting the applecart.

00:18:37:11 - 00:18:38:14 Leonard Feather: The national transition.

00:18:38:16 - 00:18:42:17 Art Blakey: Yeah.

00:18:42:19 - 00:18:48:26 Art Blakey: You know, get into it. Okay. Why not just let it go. That’s not right. We’ll give it a.

00:18:48:27 - 00:18:52:07 Leonard Feather: Better to start.

00:18:52:09 - 00:18:53:10 Calvin Jackson: Oh, it’s a good arrangement.

00:18:53:10 - 00:19:07:06 Art Blakey: It was well played. And I think they should get, you know.

00:19:07:08 - 00:19:18:04 Art Blakey: Oh. Oh.

00:19:18:06 - 00:19:19:03 Art Blakey: Okay, good.

00:19:19:06 - 00:19:21:27 Calvin Jackson: I ain’t got the least idea what it is.

00:19:21:29 - 00:19:26:11 Art Blakey: I, I believe that one of my that.

00:19:26:13 - 00:19:32:05 Calvin Jackson: I’d like to know,

00:19:32:08 - 00:19:33:15 Leonard Feather: You mean you like to.

00:19:33:17 - 00:19:38:13 Art Blakey: Yeah.

00:19:38:16 - 00:19:42:28 Art Blakey: Which do you like best? What?

00:19:43:01 - 00:19:46:07 Leonard Feather: I mean, which of the guys did you like best? But what you like about it.

00:19:46:10 - 00:19:56:27 Art Blakey: Yeah, but just to them. You like? the rhythm section was gone. The blue it.

00:19:56:27 - 00:19:57:25 Leonard Feather: Played.

00:19:57:27 - 00:20:02:01 Art Blakey: It was cooked.

00:20:02:03 - 00:20:08:17 Art Blakey: I don’t know what was playing. And.

00:20:08:19 - 00:20:24:00 Leonard Feather: Then it’s like the somebody I don’t know, Did you like that? All of them also. Did you do, like, all the solos?

00:20:24:02 - 00:20:26:03 Calvin Jackson: I didn’t listen to this.

00:20:26:05 - 00:20:29:10 Leonard Feather: Really? No. So busy listening to the rhythm section.

00:20:29:12 - 00:20:31:08 Calvin Jackson: Yeah, listen to the rhythm section.

00:20:31:11 - 00:20:36:08 Art Blakey: and, this the.

00:20:36:10 - 00:20:39:06 Art Blakey: This for the solo and solo soloist.

00:20:39:06 - 00:20:46:19 Calvin Jackson: You know, it’s something, what happened in there? just in.

00:20:46:21 - 00:20:53:07 Art Blakey: My attention rhythm section had me that, Well, all right, I’m pretty.

00:20:53:09 - 00:20:54:25 Leonard Feather: Good and.

00:20:54:28 - 00:21:08:05 Calvin Jackson: Bad, but in those days, you say you notice the dawn. Well, on. I tell you what I like about horns. I like about horns. I think a man. And so I just like birds. in a man come out and he play his instrument.

00:21:08:11 - 00:21:13:25 Art Blakey: Yeah. So, I mean, he didn’t have, he wasn’t to,

00:21:13:27 - 00:21:36:04 Calvin Jackson: Positive about what he was doing because you get that presence any time, you know, like, he a fat girl, you really, you hear, deers or you hear Miles, you hear. You got to listen to him. That’s, Clifford, you must listen to, Lee Morgan. Yeah. These guys, you got to listen to Freddie, and command your attention.

00:21:36:04 - 00:21:40:07 Calvin Jackson: You know, whether you, listen and not command your attention, but.

00:21:40:09 - 00:21:46:01 Art Blakey: It’s something to happen. You might can do it. But this is very important, and I think, you know.

00:21:46:01 - 00:22:07:16 Calvin Jackson: The guy’s playing the horn because he’s got all the best of everything. Got a melody instrument, man. He’s supposed to get in there if he don’t. The rhythm section is good. And and right behind it, they’re going to take it away from me. You got no business up there. Yeah. If you’ve not got that present, you’ve got to have it present.

00:22:07:18 - 00:22:24:08 Calvin Jackson: And then, you know, everybody can. But some guys do, you know, come down to being a soloist. you guys most guys got it. You know, you hear you know, it’s Clark Terry, you know you know he’s got something to say. You make you listen to him. Whatever he’s playing.

00:22:24:13 - 00:22:32:14 Art Blakey: Yeah, yeah, all of them got that. Benny Goodman had that to.

00:22:32:16 - 00:22:47:10 Calvin Jackson: Make you listen to. Yeah. You know, regardless, buddy, the pops got it. You know, it just make you listen because, you know, I tell you what, you know what, Leonard? You got to hear Bud Powell.

00:22:47:12 - 00:22:50:24 Leonard Feather: Oh, yes. Still making love. Oh.

00:22:50:24 - 00:22:52:16 Calvin Jackson: He’s cooking. Oh.

00:22:52:16 - 00:23:01:17 Leonard Feather: That’s wonderful. Well, I saw in Paris about three years ago, and he was in very good shape that, he played a little bit of that downstairs place, you know, perhaps I can catch.

00:23:01:20 - 00:23:05:06 Calvin Jackson: Oh, is that where he was working?

00:23:05:08 - 00:23:16:17 Art Blakey: Yeah. Picture that. Yeah. And look at the picture. You know. Two different men.

00:23:16:20 - 00:23:25:17 Art Blakey: Didn’t.

00:23:25:19 - 00:23:35:10 Art Blakey: How about that? Never. You know, it was by the Ritz, right? Well, partly.

00:23:35:12 - 00:23:37:03 Leonard Feather: Or you want to go somewhere again?

00:23:37:05 - 00:25:02:25 Art Blakey: Yeah. Yeah. There was nobody, That’s another.

00:25:02:27 - 00:25:17:14 Art Blakey: One.

00:25:17:17 - 00:25:31:05 Art Blakey: Of.

00:25:31:07 - 00:25:44:10 Art Blakey: There you go. Know.

00:25:44:12 - 00:25:55:14 Art Blakey: Right. And my buddy right? That’s him. Well, I’m not supposed to say any, but you guessed it.

00:26:01:19 - 00:26:11:12 Art Blakey: Yeah, yeah, that before I knew those things. No. Very good. Before.

00:26:11:14 - 00:26:18:22 Art Blakey: What do you think of the effect?

00:26:18:24 - 00:26:19:06 Art Blakey: It was.

00:26:19:06 - 00:26:21:09 Calvin Jackson: The drumming. But, you know, the drumming effect.

00:26:21:12 - 00:26:28:11 Art Blakey: It was good. Come off good, you know. And they made it on time, you know, they made it for a long time.

00:26:28:13 - 00:26:45:26 Calvin Jackson: Just something. It isn’t done. It’s always, it’s exceptional. They’re done with exceptional people, with exceptional drummers, you know, because most drummers can’t go operate like that. You know, they can, play each other and they cooperate. This is like they cooperate together.

00:26:46:03 - 00:26:51:15 Art Blakey: Yeah, that was nice. It’s beautiful. You.

00:26:51:17 - 00:26:55:00 Calvin Jackson: So that’s why I thought it was good.

00:26:55:02 - 00:27:01:19 Art Blakey: Very good. I mean, the drumming. But what about the rest of it? I didn’t I didn’t.

00:27:01:21 - 00:27:02:26 Leonard Feather: Pay too much mind.

00:27:02:28 - 00:27:09:03 Art Blakey: Too much attention to it. It’s not. It was pretty sloppy.

00:27:09:05 - 00:27:11:25 Calvin Jackson: They’re getting to get something together real quick.

00:27:11:28 - 00:27:27:16 Leonard Feather: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. Do you like it in the home? Yeah. Yeah, I guess you bet. You want to say anything about either of them individually? Won’t say anything about either Max or buddy individually.

00:27:27:18 - 00:27:43:05 Calvin Jackson: Well, I love both of you know, I love both. well, as you know, I’m very tired. All of us. so, that’s the way it is. You know, I like, it’s a good thing that people get a chance to hear them together.

00:27:43:07 - 00:27:57:05 Art Blakey: Yeah. That’s right.

00:27:57:07 - 00:27:59:19 Calvin Jackson: No. You got the faintest idea what that was?

00:27:59:21 - 00:28:05:00 Art Blakey: No, it was about. It was, just about, You play it for me.

00:28:05:02 - 00:28:06:05 Calvin Jackson: For you to guess.

00:28:06:08 - 00:28:14:27 Art Blakey: Soon. What? You thought it then? Yeah. Me.

00:28:14:29 - 00:28:21:10 Calvin Jackson: Well directed. yeah, it was playing it swinging as hard as it.

00:28:21:10 - 00:28:28:02 Art Blakey: Could and turning the drummer. Yeah, it was fine this way. It was good.

00:28:28:08 - 00:28:33:10 Calvin Jackson: He kept it. He kept it together. kept the thing together.

00:28:33:12 - 00:28:37:29 Art Blakey: You know? I was playing.

00:28:38:01 - 00:28:47:08 Calvin Jackson: play very good. And, Yeah. Once again, I didn’t listen to the solos.

00:28:47:10 - 00:28:53:21 Art Blakey: Well, maybe they weren’t worth listening to.

00:28:53:23 - 00:29:07:16 Calvin Jackson: Maybe. But I think they were, But I think they were worth listening to because, you know, because they just try and everybody, you know, trying to get it together.

00:29:07:19 - 00:29:09:21 Calvin Jackson: But I am glad I did.

00:29:09:22 - 00:29:16:16 Leonard Feather: Who it is. No, you would not listen carefully to give it a good rating. Three.

00:29:16:19 - 00:29:21:06 Calvin Jackson: Yeah. Okay. I want to know who was it. I’m going to.

00:29:21:08 - 00:29:29:02 Leonard Feather: Tell you this one because it’s rather interesting. This kid named very Miles was 14 years old. This drummer has been playing around New York. You know.

00:29:29:04 - 00:29:31:01 Calvin Jackson: I heard him for 14 years.

00:29:31:01 - 00:29:47:20 Leonard Feather: Yeah. He was playing like this from the age of about nine, and he’s now 14. So I was very, interested that you, you know, you didn’t notice that the any in professional about the drumming so evidently is pretty damn good for that age. You never heard of him?

00:29:47:23 - 00:29:49:02 Calvin Jackson: It’s good for any age.

00:29:49:09 - 00:30:03:14 Leonard Feather: How about that? And this is on Doris Parker’s level, man. Charlie Parker records, his first album with Duke Jordan. You see the question? It’s not interesting.

00:30:03:17 - 00:30:04:29 Art Blakey: Well, know about that.

00:30:05:02 - 00:30:07:05 Calvin Jackson: But that’s,

00:30:07:07 - 00:30:08:01 Leonard Feather: The study comes.

00:30:08:01 - 00:30:15:06 Art Blakey: Up.

00:30:15:08 - 00:30:16:29 Art Blakey: Like that?

00:30:17:01 - 00:30:26:15 Calvin Jackson: It was Benny Golson. Benny Golson arrangement, and. Yeah.

00:30:26:17 - 00:30:33:08 Calvin Jackson: I never heard that before either, but I know it was him. Yeah, he liked it, so. Yeah.

00:30:33:10 - 00:30:46:21 Art Blakey: Brilliant. Well.

00:30:46:23 - 00:30:50:11 Art Blakey: How long have you known back?

00:30:50:14 - 00:31:00:08 Calvin Jackson: Quite a long time. You know, I met him, and when we worked in it, I met him. I met him at disease band. I met him way before that.

00:31:00:11 - 00:31:01:15 Leonard Feather: the old man. Yeah.

00:31:01:15 - 00:31:05:27 Art Blakey: Oh, yeah.

00:31:06:00 - 00:31:08:14 Art Blakey: Yeah.

00:31:08:16 - 00:31:11:16 Leonard Feather: then he worked for you about a year and a half. Was in Vietnam.

00:31:11:16 - 00:31:14:28 Calvin Jackson: Yeah.

00:31:15:00 - 00:31:43:06 Calvin Jackson: He was wonderful, too, in that band. And he was, you know, he, you know, he liked to, he’s organization type of guy. Everything is good to be, you know, speedy and. Yeah, which is a wonderful thing, you know? but now I think that he found it like he’s got, you know, got his own make himself more flexible.

00:31:43:06 - 00:31:49:24 Calvin Jackson: Yeah. And you like it? He sure writes pretty things. Many things.

00:31:49:27 - 00:31:56:01 Leonard Feather: Yeah. And you like it? Sound that kind of sound on time?

00:31:56:04 - 00:32:01:07 Calvin Jackson: Yeah, I like that. Yeah, sure. I was raised up in that, you know. That’s.

00:32:01:08 - 00:32:02:07 Leonard Feather: That’s right.

00:32:02:09 - 00:32:10:10 Calvin Jackson: That I like that that, you know traditional. Yeah. So very good.

00:32:10:13 - 00:32:17:04 Art Blakey: Very good. How would you rate that out of,

00:32:17:06 - 00:32:18:20 Calvin Jackson: You should get five for that.

00:32:18:20 - 00:32:19:25 Leonard Feather: Well very good.

00:32:19:28 - 00:32:31:23 Art Blakey: This is, first five. Sorry. I know.

00:32:31:25 - 00:32:48:03 Leonard Feather: I love you, all right. There’s one more tune also that might be begging me to go in there six nights, but I really, it just seems for me to take a six night gig. You know, it’s only daytime.

00:32:48:06 - 00:32:56:28 Leonard Feather: it’s called herbalist blindfold test record one.

00:32:57:00 - 00:33:00:06 Herb Ellis: Well.

00:33:00:08 - 00:33:01:06 Herb Ellis: Do I start?

00:33:01:09 - 00:33:02:20 Leonard Feather: Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

00:33:02:22 - 00:33:28:10 Herb Ellis: Well, I think that was, a song I very much like Charlie Byrd to me. and, I he’s one of my favorite players. Although I thought the arrangement was, a little trite. Yeah. For his standard, I thought that the, was a little. Try it also, but, I thought his performance was very good.

00:33:28:13 - 00:33:55:17 Herb Ellis: However, they didn’t get too good a sound on him. They got, a little too much, metallic and finger noise. So I’d give it three stars. Mainly because it’s Charlie, and he does play so very well. It’s beautiful. That’s, I think that’s, Wes Montgomery and, George Shearing. I know they did an album together I’d never heard.

00:33:55:24 - 00:34:18:13 Herb Ellis: I have never heard anything from it, but I would, surmise that’s who it is. And, I think it’s beautiful. I got to give it four stars. Who do you think composed it? I was thinking, I don’t know, I think George composed.

00:34:18:15 - 00:34:30:05 Herb Ellis: But it’s well recorded, and all the solos come off beautiful because Wes Montgomery is definitely one of my favorite good cars.

00:34:30:08 - 00:34:38:13 Art Blakey: So that’s, four star of.

00:34:38:16 - 00:34:46:01 Herb Ellis: The West and, I think melodically similar composing. Not necessarily.

00:34:46:03 - 00:34:47:10 Leonard Feather: Yeah. But composing.

00:34:47:10 - 00:34:53:24 Herb Ellis: They, they think very similar.

00:34:53:26 - 00:35:11:15 Herb Ellis: Well, from that bass guitar, it’s hard to tell who played it because I, I just don’t particularly like the sound of it. Yeah. The I think it’s Barney Kessel. The only reason I, I do think it’s very is because the arrangement sounds like Barney. And a couple of times the comping behind, the solo, it sounded like Barney.

00:35:11:18 - 00:35:35:01 Herb Ellis: Yeah, but that’s the only, only way I could tell. Anyway, it’s worth. I think it’s worth about, two stars. If it is Barney. He also is one of my favorite players. But that’s not my favorite. You don’t like the type of. I don’t like that type of record. Yeah.

00:35:35:03 - 00:35:58:07 Herb Ellis: Well, I don’t know. I don’t know what, the bass player sound. It’s not very good. I like the bass player and the tenor solo sounded good. The trumpet solo is a good player. But I thought he just a little, a little too obvious a copy of Miles. Yeah, not that that’s not good, but I mean, he’s just copying a little too much.

00:35:58:07 - 00:36:12:23 Herb Ellis: And on this particular record, my knee doesn’t do that. All that and the trombone didn’t come off too low. the piano came off okay. I see it’s a fairly nice little composition. I’d read about three star.

00:36:12:26 - 00:36:14:00 Leonard Feather: Who has no particular comment.

00:36:14:00 - 00:36:19:18 Art Blakey: On the composition.

00:36:19:21 - 00:36:26:02 Herb Ellis: Yeah, the composition is pretty nice. I like that pretty good. Okay. Writing it for you.

00:36:26:05 - 00:36:31:06 Art Blakey: Oh.

00:36:31:09 - 00:36:37:12 Art Blakey: Well.

00:36:37:15 - 00:36:45:05 Art Blakey: Yeah. One thing. Hello?

00:36:45:08 - 00:36:58:08 Leonard Feather: Yeah. Oh, Tony, how are you? It’s quite a no, but I, I like to work on the other phone. Just tell them, what? What name your web.

00:36:58:10 - 00:37:16:29 Leonard Feather: Well, I try to get you at home this morning, you know, and I. Did you get the message in my office yesterday? I mean, from your office? Yeah, because I didn’t know you weren’t there. And I was very surprised and wanted to find out what’s happening. No kidding. Oh, I’d like to hear about it. You probably. Yeah. Very often as a people get out of there, you know.

00:37:17:02 - 00:37:29:04 Leonard Feather: Well, will you be home later? All right. Fine, because I’m in the middle of an interview now. So, will you be home? I can call you that. Is it you want to be on?

00:37:29:07 - 00:37:49:23 Leonard Feather: Oh, well, I wouldn’t have got you anyway, because I was calling your number. Oh. Oh, well, 46363. Well, they didn’t have all this money. It just rang, as far as I recall. All right, I’ll talk to you later in my turn. Okay. Bye. Tony. No. You know him? Oh, son. He was a little. Oh, no, I don’t know.

00:37:49:28 - 00:37:57:23 Leonard Feather: And, he just got aged out of a job that I was in, in the capital. Oh. We’re running all right. Well.

00:37:57:25 - 00:38:28:21 Herb Ellis: First of all, the composition is beautiful. We split with Oscar when I was with Oscar. I can’t think of the name right now, but, it’s Bill. I love that, and there’s certain things about it. It’s got a pretty nice field record. Is good. And, The French horn player, Tried some very, adventurous things, and some of them came up.

00:38:28:23 - 00:38:49:12 Herb Ellis: That’s right. That’s a hard instrument. I know, because that was my first instrument. Oh, yeah, I played it, but I started in college. It was. It was too late. Yeah, I know how hard it is. So I got to give him some skin for, making something. And the guitarist, he. I don’t know it. I don’t think it could be Wes Montgomery.

00:38:49:15 - 00:39:06:28 Herb Ellis: It it is. It’s on a date is not too good. But the guy plays with a thumb and he plays the chords, and he plays the piece and everything. But if it is Wes, just say that, everybody doesn’t have is not good. Everybody. I don’t think it is. But if it is, he just was one of his days, in my opinion.

00:39:07:01 - 00:39:09:04 Leonard Feather: But for anybody else, you think be a good day.

00:39:09:09 - 00:39:23:27 Herb Ellis: Anybody else would be pretty good. Yeah. but, I would say it’s about three stars. It’s not a bad record at all. Yeah. Okay. Are you recording? Yeah. Yeah, I forgot to say that. I thought the bass player sounded excellent.

00:39:23:29 - 00:39:26:20 Calvin Jackson: On that for several weeks at.

00:39:26:20 - 00:39:57:26 Leonard Feather: The town hell. Yeah, we did five weeks there and, concert with our folks and concert at, East L.A. Junior College, weekend number grand and Mondays at Shelley’s. Yeah. And records. That’s about it, I guess, you know, nothing outside of town. Yeah. Know? No. Not yet. there’s been any any efforts to get the group to go east or anything on Chicago.

00:39:57:28 - 00:40:12:29 Leonard Feather: Well, we’ve we’ve been thinking about it, of course, because you have to do that sooner or later if you want to put a group out. And, you know, I guess, but we’ve been, we haven’t been making any desperate efforts because of the album not being out with me. And let me know if, felt it when it came out.

00:40:12:29 - 00:40:27:01 Leonard Feather: We have a better chance. Yeah, we’ve been calling San Francisco, and there’s, a couple of clubs there and said, you know, maybe sometime in, And I guess the album would be the stepping stone to that. We’re hoping so.

00:40:27:01 - 00:40:32:21 Art Blakey: You know, it certainly should. Yeah. Let’s go, Harold, and see.

00:40:32:22 - 00:40:40:27 Leonard Feather: Yeah, yeah.